6 Reasons Why Our Husbands Cheat On Us with Women That Don’t Have It Together

Hello, ladies. Welcome to another post!
Who is….”The Other Woman?”. Despite the stereotype of “The other woman” being prettier, smarter, richer, or “better” in other ways than a man’s wife, it’s actually pretty common for this stereotype not to be accurate at all.

Often a wife will contact me surprised at who the husband is cheating with. They just don’t understand he sees in the OW. In talking with many on this topic, I now have a couple of other thoughts on why husbands cheat on us with women that are not ‘together’.

**I know the things I state below is not true of everyone that is a mistress, tons of reasons why two people engage in extra-marital affairs; this is just my opinion of a portion of mistresses. I am also aware that some mistresses had no idea the man they were engaging with was married.

1. A cheating husband is not looking for ‘wife material’ when he cheats. He is looking for someone that is willing to have sex and make him feel good. If you meet the criteria, then a match is made, and it is typically that simple. The cheating husband often doesn’t look too much past those criteria. Basic questions like ‘Is she crazy?’ or ‘How does she act in public?’ does not cross his mind.

2. Women with lower self-esteem are easier to entice into a cheating situation. They will be more willing to be a ‘side chick’ than a stronger, more confident woman.

3. Since the OW has low self-esteem, she can easily turn a blind eye to all the lies it takes to maintain an affair.

4. Since the OW does not have herself together, she often needs/wants assistance from your husband. This is typically pay off in exchange for keeping quiet. It can be money, trips, jewelery.

5. Self-centered women are often the OW. They choose not to think about their actions and how it might impact others, they take the stance of ‘it is all about me’.

6. Our husbands get into affairs with women who will actually believe all the hype and lies about the two of them “being together”, so they’ll put up with anything as long as this promise gets dangled in front of them. The truth is that while some husbands leave when they get caught, much more stay and dump the mistress, leaving the power with the wives hands to choose to stay or leave the marriage.

286 thoughts on “6 Reasons Why Our Husbands Cheat On Us with Women That Don’t Have It Together”

  1. It’s really true , all my husband’s affair are much younger . two of them are married . it’s not a good idea if we marry to a man who has no steady job,with the name of love we cover him , we think we can build business together and support him by working like a horse.
    after many years the business succeed , he had an affair and ironically when i found out , he said because i was so busy wth work that;s why he had an affair.

    1. Hello Melly,

      Sorry to hear about your husband. I don’t know what that is with younger women, almost as if they feel that someone younger validates them, no matter what her personality is of where she comes from. I had similar feelings to you, in that I also felt like I worked very hard cause my husband made less, so I felt a very heavy burden as far as trying to keep everything together. Your husband saying that he had an affair because you were so busy is an excuse. If that was the case, there would be tons of things he could of done outside of cheat. Best of luck to you during this tough time.

  2. Aaron Elisabeth

    WOW did that hit the nail on the head. My Husband has been talking about divorce the last month and little did I know that he was kendling an old flame with an EX gf from high school. we are a young couple and Have only been married a couple of years and have a 1 year old. to ice the cake I am 12 weeks pregnant. this is a hard time for me. and I am even willing to try but he doesn’t want to. so I am moving back home to my family and once I leave I won’t be returning. hope all of you the best.

    1. Thanks Aaron,
      My husband wasn’t talking about divorce, but he was acting pretty darn arrogant, especially when it came to sex. So once I found out, I knew the real reason he was acting so strange.

      It’s is SO tough to deal with a cheating husband when you have kids in the picture. He is surely going to come back around eventually once he realizes what he lost, they always do, and when he does it seems like you made your choice. It really sucks to have to deal with this while pregnant, I hated that feeling while I was pregnant, it’s like this weird feeling that you can’t really grieve the way you want because you have a baby inside of you. I am really glad you have family to move back in with while you rebuild your life, it’s a tough time, but you will get through this, take care.

  3. That’s the problem who care about the other women she has nothing 2 do with your husband cheating note to self( your husband ) so many times I see women trying to figure out why did a women sleep with a married man instead of why did ur husband sleep with someone other than you that’s why men will do what they do to us because we worried about the other women f**k her focus on ur husband if u plan on sticking around

    1. Just saying,

      This is probably the one of the only posts you will find on the site that talks so much about the other women. And even though I focused on the other women, I do call out in #4 about the husband’s lack and the need for him to fill that need. Yes if you are a perfect person then you probably would just focus on the husband. But guess what, we are humans, and when your husband cheats, it’s natural for you to think about the other woman. The key is not to obsess about it, because you will never get the answers you’re looking for. I know you suggested to focus on why your husband did it, I don’t think that’s the right route either, because trying to figure out the exact reason why will drive you crazy. The main thing to focus on is the impact to you as a person from the affair and whether or not you and your husband are willing to work like crazy to rebuild the marriage from the ground up, because after cheating, the foundation of the marriage is shattered. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

  4. I read your post with interest, because I am the other woman! I am highly educated with a masters from a good university, was married for over 30 years, am 58 years old, have high self esteem, and am everything you say the other woman is not. Some men want to be in a relationship with a woman who is interested, cares, and is intelligent. Often things are not good at home. Quit blaming the other woman and take some responsibility. Often the other woman doesn’t want all of the responsibilities that go with a marriage. She often acts as a third leg for the stool of a crumbling marriage. She allows the husband to stay in the marriage!

  5. Hi,
    My husband also cheated with a woman 20 yrs his junior. He said he was “flattered” that some one much younger than him thought he was attractive. I am very well educated have a masters degree and am respected in my professional arena. My husband is a laborer and makes much less than me. It never bothered me and now that he has cheated on me he makes me feel worse. I wanted to stay and work it out but IDK if I can. Every single time we do some thing like going to the movies or out to dinner, I think about whether or not he took her to these places too. I am obsessed with finding out everything. My biggest trigger next to himself is that damn cell phone that is still constantly ringing.

  6. Denise,

    Thanks for sharing your opinion. I am not blaming the other woman, the heavier burden of blame lies with the husband – he is the one that made the commitment. I know there will always be an exception to who is the OW, but keep in mind a couple of things. MOST of the time, when the wife finds out, the husbands are begging us not to leave. And everyone gets hurt, included the OW who thought she would be the first choice, until the wife finds out. So the crumbling marriage thing is often times just something cheaters say to make the OW feel comfortable with the affair. Second, I don’t believe that most of the OW are uneducated, you can be the most intelligent women in the world, but that doesn’t mean you have high self esteem. The reason I hit on the self esteem thing is if your smart and beautiful, why would you ever want to be a ‘third leg’? You deserve to have a man fully, and on your own. There are many relationships where there are no strings attached, where is not the type of commitment you have been engaged in 30 years of marriage, all you have to do is set expectations in the beginning, and he doesn’t have to be married. I guess what I am saying is you can have what you desire without being the OW. If you don’t mind sharing, how did you meet the husband your cheating with? I am sincerely only asking out of curiosity, it is very interesting to me how relationships like this happen. Was it friends first..then progressed or a co-worker??

  7. Just Saying,

    I stayed at first, he really did not want to get a divorce, but wasn’t willing to put the effort it took to restore the trust. I gave him a second chance and found out the lies and cheating continued. Once that point, I have too much self-respect to be treated in that manner.

    As far as having a child out of the affair, I don’t touch on it because I don’t have experience with it. I will say that complicates the situation ten-fold. In my personal opinion, when a child comes into the picture, game over. The husband needs to step up and be there for the child. When I say be there, regardless if he stays in the affair, he should be in the child’s life and should provide financial support, and doing this when he already has a family seems very complicated. This is just my humble opinion, and I would probably need more details like does the wife know? How does he feel about the child? Is he acting funny now? ect, ect…

  8. Hello Myra,

    Thanks for sharing. I think the fact that he makes less and cheated with a younger person really plays into this feeling that he wants to be ‘boosted up’ by external factors. The scary part is Myra if he doesn’t have the confidence within himself to feel confident, he will always be searching for that boost. It may not be in the form of cheating, but we can’t boost our husbands up 24/7, they have to be confident enough on their own. My husband was the same way, the minute I had my own problems (like being pregnant) and I couldn’t constantly boost him up, he cheated. It’s just sad all the way around, seriously. I hope your able to go to marriage counseling to start to work through this, him expressing his sincere feelings about the affair is a good sign.

  9. Wow to the other women Denise, did you ever think that if he lies to his wife, he is lying to you? My husband of 24 years got caught, again. First it was the wife of our Mormon neighbor 21 years ago, years of counseling and it was all about “him” but we worked hard, we had 3 little boys in this mix too. This time he was turning 50 and did not want to grow up. Again his excuses are about “him”, he forgot his wife and 3 sons. Yes we are having marital problems but he did not discuss or communicate, matter of fact he keeps telling me he is not good at communicating and that all was fine. Yet I tried to get out of him what was going on for the last 2 years, I knew things were not fine.

    I have morals, judgement and respect for others. No matter how bad my marriage was or is, I would never, ever cheat. Cheaters are liars, have no morals or standards and generally only care about themselves. An education does not equate to being a decent person as your post suggests.

    Yes I am angry, yes I am still deciding what I will do and Yes I will tell our 3 boys who are now young men. It is sad that they have a father that is a liar, has no morals and has been deceitful to his family. This time I am not quiet and yes the husband of the other women will get a call too. I am not responsible nor is this my fault. Yes I am angry too and my family and his family are greatly disappointed in him as a father, husband, son and son in law. His good friend is disappointed too, my husband does not know I called this person and let them know because I had to know more about the other women. Our families are hurt so much so they could not attend our middle sons recent College Graduation because they could not see or speak to him, emotions are too raw.

    I have no idea what will be next, middle son is moving home after College Graduation and this will just give my husband another excuse to not deal with his true problems. I know I must seek legal advice now too and this whole thing is very sad. Just think, if he had been truthful and willing to communicate to his wife of 24 years, the hurt, anger and sadness of today did not have to happen. Affairs are wrong in every aspect, the people in them have no self respect or care about others. Leave your spouse first, the pain would be much, much less. Right now all I think about is how I can make him pay, and maybe hitting him financially is what I need to do. Sadly he will loose the respect of his family, friends and sons. So tell me, is it worth it?

    1. Hello Julie,

      Sad to hear another story of a cheating husband. I found out my husband cheated, and months later, found out he was still seeing her. Tore me up to pieces. So I can’t even imagine the pain you are in, going through years of therapy and hard work to recovery, only for him to do it again years later. They never want us to tell anyone, because they know the shame and disappointment will be a hard hit to them. Your right, they should of thought about that when cheating. I can sense the anger in your email. I will tell you first hand that revenge doesn’t really work in this situation. I told his family out of revenge and anger, it didn’t work. I wanted him to hurt to the level that I hurt, anger and pain so deep you don’t know if your going to ever recover, but I never got it. Now I am at the point that I don’t care. I am moving on and I can care less if he hurts, I don’t have time for trying to do that to him. But that is because we are separated and don’t live together, you still live with your husband, so the pain and anger is still fresh. I really hope this situation, especially everyone knowing serves as a wake up call to him. I hope this situation serves as an important lesson to your 3 sons in how cheating rips families apart. And most importantly, I hope that this situation serves as a way for you to grow wiser and stronger than ever before. I wish you the best in your healing.

  10. I don’t really blame the other woman ( much!!) she is as you describe Jewels, someone with low self-esteem who just seemed glad to have any man. However, she was ‘kind’ enough to give me all the details of their relationship with a few whoopers thrown in, which I later found out were lies. The biggest being that she was pregnant with my husbands child. Anyway, I am totally driving myself crazy compairing her physical appearance to mine and frankly I don’t live up to her slim body and long blond hair. My husband is truly sorry and I love him very much but don’t want to get back together unitl I can sort my emotions, paranoia, low self- esteem and most of all desperate need to know every detail of what happended during the affair. I know we are all different but when do these feeling die down a bit ( i Know they will never go completely). It has been 8 months since I found out and I just seem to be going one step forward, two steps back. My advice to any women that have just found out about their husbands cheating on them is to never speak with the OW, it will seriously mess with your head – even when it is the one thing you really want to do most..

    1. Hello Anne,

      Yes, I talked to the OW as well, and I was sure there wasn’t much of anything she could tell me to get me all emotional, but after I hung up that phone, I was a mess, mad, hurt and angry. Unlike your situation, most of what she said was true. As far as the emotions, it’s really tough. You dealing with a large amount of severe emotions that can get you all wound up in this circle of depression that feels like it will never end. The way I got out of it was to stop focusing on the pain. Now I know that is easier said than done, but little my little, when I had the choice, I would choose to do something for me, versus do something that would focus my attention on the affair. I know you said you are having a hard time with her appearance and wanting to know all the details, as most of us do. The thing you have to ask yourself is what is the good that will come out of it. What good will come out of comparing yourself to her? What good will come out of knowing all of the details? If no good will come out of it, then try to focus on something that will have a good output (a walk outside, reading your favorite book). Even if you knew every little detail (which most will never know), will that make you happier? That is how you get out of it, make how you feel the most important darn thing on this planet, and once you do that, you will start to focus you activities around things that make you feel good, and slowly but surely, things will turn around. Take Care.

  11. Hi all,

    Ok..so I am/was the other woman, now in mass confusion. Here is my story and I really want to do the right thing here and I hope you can all help.
    I am a stay at home mom, by choice. I have a Masters degree and teach on occasion. My husband (DH) was a traveling salesman and a big time alcohlic. Most people would be surprsed at this..he acted like a normal family guy. DH wasn’t and our marriage of 11 years suffered. So instead of divorcing him I fulfilled my emotioanal/sexual needs with a man (HWG) from work who was known as a cheater. He had been with students and had other affairs, I think 5, on his wife of 20 years. We each have 3 kids. HWG and I ended up in this powerful romance. She found out about us and He asked his wife for a divorce (July) and moved out. He has Serious issues with money and became…well really broke, like almost evicted broke, which was also close to Christmas time. I too was divorcing, not because of the affair. Another story. He ended up going back and I was devasted, plus I had to see him, we work about 1 foot away from each other. Well in the end he ended up leaving his wife after christmas, again. Asked for a divorce, she filed for child support and moved into another apartment and we continued dating. Then money problems happened again for him. His never really got his kids into a routine of coming to see him, so in the summer he ended up going over to his exes to see them. I didnt mind, I trusted him..I know stupid. Anyway, I now know he is trying to go back, he misses his status in life, misses his money, and misses his kids…but not his wife. I know that becuase I caught him heavily flirting with a student. So I know I need to get rid of this guy. But he is lying to his exwife/wife too. Saying he is a changed man. he wants to come back to the house and family. I’m wondering If I should tell her everything…right now this guy and I are still dating. He still send me texts that he loves me and wants to be with me forever. So, should I tell the exwife/wife? I really don’t care whether she chooses to stay with him or not, but I feel like I would want to make that decision with my eyes wide open….

    1. Hello Kylie,
      The thing that I would like you to think about it why do you want to tell his wife. Your intentions of why is very important. If you are intending to tell her so that she can leave him and be with you, that is not going to work. You should not want that for yourself, seeing his track record. I feel that if an opportunity presents itself (she calls you,etc.), then you should be truthful. But to track her down and tell her, not sure what value that would bring. This man has cheated on her, and she has caught him in the past. You are probably not the first one she has found out about. Even after knowing, she has taking him back twice, so again, you have to think about what you are expecting to come out of telling her, are you doing it to help her, help yourself, or hurt her? Personally, if I were you, I would focus on how I could block this guys number and move on with life, he is clearing playing games and hurting all parties involved, including yourself. Whether or not you get involved, the wife is eventually going to see him for what he really is.

  12. Hi Jewels,

    Thank you so very much for responding. I have spent alot of time thinking about this. While he is short of a monster, I loved/love him, ugh. He seemed to have a genuine interet in changing…until the money issues started to arise. I guess for a long time I picutred eventually this women and I would be friends. I also felt kind of bad for her that this man couldnt get it together for her. Yes she found out about his cheating on numerous occations, somethimes turned the other cheek other times they went to counseling. I also know that if I did tell her he and I would never be together. Thats ok…We cant be anyway. I would not be doing it to hurt her, on purpose anyway. But right now she is under the impression that he has completely changed and he hasnt. If she still takes him back, thats none of my conern, I would just want her to know that he really hasnt changed. I feel like I would want someone to do this for me….but that is why I am asking here… 🙂

    1. Hello Kylie,
      I understand that you want to tell her because she is under the impression that he has changed and it’s not fair to her to go along thinking that he has when he hasn’t. I also get that you would want someone to tell you if you were in her shoes. BUT trust me, she has been told numerous times, so you telling her again is probably not going to change anything. SHE has to see him for what he really is. Just like you – a year ago, you might of accepted his games, accepted being his side women, etc. You know it was wrong to be with a married man, but you thought he really was going to change. And I am sure if girlfriends, ect, would of told you that it is wrong, you probably would of continued, only when you saw him for what he is can you now stop participating in his games. Same with the wife, she has to see it for herself. The best thing you can do for her is to leave him alone for good, no more contact, no more phone calls. You deserve more than a part time man.

  13. My husband cheated with an older women who has had plastic surgery, so not him at all! She has had multiple plastic surgeries and is the scary skinny with fake blond hair. Her face looked like it was pulled too tight and she has a good life married to a dentist, with the big home, big RV, mercedes, large diamond ring. We live very conservatively, small home and my husband is self employed and makes just enough for us to get by, but I have always been ok with that. Right now she is still pressing him to leave me and commit to her, as if he could afford her lifestyle. Because I have a disability he would have to continue paying me to maintain this lifestyle.. She is also manipulative, a phony and not well thought of by many at our gym and friends. But she is good with the words and of course he became very emotionally attached, which is causing our problems right now. We are still dealing with this, he is home and back in our bed but every couple of weeks throws at me the “I am confused, not sure what I want”….. Yet he stays home with me…

  14. Hi
    My husband just confirm to me he has cheated. I have suspected back in June but when I confronted him he sear up and down it was noting. I really did not believe him, so I checked his phone afterward everyday. Few days ago I saw text message with OW and I didn’t know what to do. That day he confess to me that he cheated. He told me he was sorry and ask for forgiveness. I am hurt and I really don’t know if I should forgive him. He told me he will work very hard to get my trust back if it was last thing he have to do in his life. Help what should I do.

  15. my husband cheated on me and i found out 3 weeks ago…we are mormon so there are steps that he has to take inorder for him to be forgiven especially from our church. He is willing to go through it even though it is very embarrasing and he has to admit what he did to the leaders of the church, kind a like confession…i stil have the hard feeling for him, he is begging me to stay with him, we have a 5 year old son, and he seems like he knows what is going on….i forgave him but i cannot be able to forget what he did…i will be ok one day and next thing you know is i confront him about it, why did he cheat, he kept saying it is his mistakes and he was selfish to do it and he regret what he did, but for some reason it is not good enough for me…
    I’m trying my self to be selfish and dont care about his feeling, i say whatever i want to say eventhough i know it hurt him, i have revenge feeling, i want him to pay for what he did. I’m so embrass to even admit what he did to my friends, i want to but i don’t want them to feel sorry for me…
    I told him that yes we can still be together, and then suddenly i change my mind and told him he needs to leave, i can’t be with him because i am so unhappy with hi, and everytime i see him it reminds me what he did and it is like that in most days. He has been very patience with me on that. If he become upset about something at home and it has nothing to do with the affair, i become more angry and told him he has no right to be mad no matter what…i become someone i am no, and i hate it…i just know know what to do. I’m afraid he will do it again, but he kept promising and tellling me he will not, seeing the pain our family is going thruogh because a selfish decision he made and also seeing what i have to go through with the pain….i just don’t know what else to do.

    1. Hello light,

      Welcome to the devastation period, where your world is turned upside down by the affair. I know you might not see it this way, but he reason for cheating is actually a good one and I will tell you why. Many men blame everyone but themselves for the affair. They blame the wife. The fact that he blames himself is a good sign because that means that he is a man that takes full responsibility for his actions, he is not trying to project that on you, and if I would ever put my bet on what type of man would be able to stay married after this, it would be the type that takes full responsibility.

      The way you feel right now is very normal (it’s exactly what I describe in my free ebook). It’s only been 3 weeks so during this phase it’s important to realize you don’t have to make any final decisions at this time. You emotional state is in overdrive it’s ok to accept your emotions as normal and let them be until your emotional state calms down a little bit. I know it’s easier said than done. I am very glad he is willing to go through the process, again, many men in his position would be embarrassed to do so, that’s a big step. I have hope for you and your marriage, I hope everything works out.

  16. I would like to say to Denise the OW that she is not all that and more. Because she has sex with married men tells me that she is amoral and derives her selfworth by attention married men show her (how pathetic). She represents everything bad in women today and as I have heard from other people she has what is called a “Character Flaw.” So cheating spouses and the OW/OM all have character flaws.

  17. Just an update: So the HWG and I broke up…he was broke…bad…and wanted to reconsile with his wife…I said good for you…good luck. So now he recently moved backed in with her, and he is now dating another women too. I just feel really bad for his wife. Literally he was single after we broke up for all of 1 month…moved back into the house with his wife and now is cheating again…I know this becuase I work 1 foot away from him…and have heard him. He tries to hide it, but i know his game. Stupid. I feel bad for the wife, but in my opinion she kinda derserves this…she took him back after at least 5 affairs…numerous hookups and he acutally left her for me…twice. (which by the way he wasnt supposed to do, I was under the impression he too was in an abusive relationship). I cant beleive she doesnt see all this. I mean I know her dad was the same way with her mother…However Im still not saying anything to her, as per your advice. Who I really feel bad for his impressionable 14 yr old daughter. I dont want her to marry the same man her dad is. He has 2 boys too…I sincerely hope I am doing the right thing.

  18. Hi Jewels,
    My question is do the mental images of my cheating spouse and the other woman ever go away. I will be just fine and then a trigger hits me and I am back visioning my husband with the OW or in his case the other girl, she was only 20 and he was 37.

    I found about the affair 14 years ago and we have been going to counseling for the last 2.5 years. I still question whether I did the right thing by staying with him. At the time I found about the affair I had just had my son and was competely depended upon my husband for financial support. I have since got my degree and can support myself.

    My husband says he will do anything for me and does not want a divorce, but he continues to look at other women and then deny it. These actions create insecurity in me and then I wonder do I really want to stay with someone who can’t or won’t stop the looking. To me looking leads to wanting which leads to cheating.

    Thank-you for letting me vent…

    1. Hello JackieO,

      As far as those mental images, I can only tell you what I think, because me and my husband are not together, so it is much easier for me to get rid of those images. For you, there are going to be times where something will happen that will trigger the memory of the affair. The question is, how long does it consume your mind and how quickly can you divert your attention elsewhere. Part of it is your husband as well. For instance, if he is very open and honest with you since the affair, and gives you peace of mind that he loves you and is there for you (no sneaking cell phones, coming in at 2am), etc., then when you get that mental trigger, you have to divert it to those images of him calling you if he is late, giving you access to his phone, etc. If he doesn’t do any of those things, then it is breeding a situation where you are going to get trigger events, and his actions (wondering eyes) actually hinder progress instead of help. If hindering eyes is the only thing that he is doing that is getting to you, then I suggest you have a conversation around it and how much it impacts and reminds you of the affair. Talk about it, either he is going to try to understand or not. If not, then you have to go back to that question, that you already asked, do you really want to stay with someone who can’t stop or won’t stop looking. Some women are ok with that, but YOU have to be ok with it, and if you are not ok with it for whatever reason, you have a choice to make. Put it in context of the marriage, your past and his current actions (only which you will know all of), and make that choice (which is a very difficult one as you know). Take Care.

  19. Anne, I spoke to the other woman, but not out of choice. She phoned to tell me she was expecting my husbands child. I didn’t believe her as we thought he was infertile. Turned out he’s not!
    But he lied about the affair, told me it wasn’t true, until I got the letter with the details.
    She is a woman I know, and never liked. He hadn’t liked her either! He says he never liked her! My reaction now? If he can get someone pregnant that he doesn’t like, what will happen if he meets someone he does like?
    He tormented me for years about my weight, despite the fact I wasn’t overweight, yet his mistress was 3 or 4 dress sizes larger than me!
    I always made the effort with my appearance, and I am an intelligent woman. She, on the other hand, comes across as a bit dim.
    I mean, she was in a relationship with someone else when the affair started, left him and got pregnant to my husband. She is late thirties, where I am almost 42, and had 4 kids.
    Why did neither of them think to protect themselves! Because she told my husband if she got pregnant she would dump the child on my doorstep! Even that didn’t give him a wake up call.
    I am over 3 years down the line now.
    I can’t forget what he’s done. I have wasted 3 years with a man not worthy of my love.
    I have gone through every emotion, the feeling of no self worth, not being good enough for my husband, so how could I possibly be good enough for anyone else.
    I even wondered if I was responsible. The answer to that is absolutely no way. If he felt there was a problem he should have spoken to me! He didn’t he chose to sleep with someone else.
    He has told me how he didn’t plan an affair.
    No he didn’t plan to have an affair at the start, but what he did do is make choices. He chose to meet up with her, sleep with her, get another mobile so he could contact her. They were choices he made so ultimately doing all theses resulted in some planning, somewhere along the way.
    So now I am leaving. It wasn’t the easiest decision in the world, as financially there are massive implications, but I am hoping for a happier life.
    Maybe one day I will find a man who has morals, because there are some about. I will be happy again

    1. Caz,

      I can tell that you are in a good place, and happy for you. When making the decision to leave, I was in the same boat, left, huge financial impact, but you know what, happier than I have ever been, I wish the same for you, and yes there are men out there with morals. Take Care.

  20. It is really interesting the pattern I see here. Speaking from the so-called other woman’s perspective, there is much to be said on this issue. The fact of the matter is that the husband is, in fact, the one with the character flaw. This does not mean that there are not women that seek out married men, however they do not often hold those men at gunpoint and force themselves into the situation. The glaring irony is that the husband has and continues to do the same thing to both women. If you are the wife that has been cheated on, of course, its easy to point out ALL of the other woman’s flaws, be they physical or characteristic. The same can be said of the other woman. They are both an attempt to avoid holding the true culprit responsible. If a man is capable of falling in love with two women, he must be inherently two-faced. Naturally, either woman is going to want to know as much about the other as possible, for the cheater made a connection between the two, undesirable as it may be. Who wouldn’t want to know more about a person who shares the same affliction or addiction? Both parties are in recovery. Who is within their rights to argue over who is more morally corrupt and who is playing the role of fool? I would venture to say that the wife has all the signs of the affair and chooses to ignore them, just as the other woman often does. Trust me the husband is lying to the other woman too. He is telling her the same things that he tells his adoring wife, taking her to the same places. All the “I love you’s”, all the things that he doesn’t like about his wife, all of the reasons why he would rather be with the mistress, etc. I would contend that the fact of the matter is that the husband may love his wife, he most likely loves his mistress, but overall he loves himself most, and is inherently selfish, otherwise this would not be an issue. It should also be noted that I am speaking on Long-Term affairs, not one-night stands, etc, in which the husband comes clean and makes a genuine effort to move past things. Therefore, I feel it is equally as petty for the wife to attempt to console herself by faulting the mistress for what she is guilty of doing herself. Why does the so-called other woman have less room to react and respond in the situation. Why is it expected that the other woman should not have any feelings for the man she has also been in a long-term relationship with and that she should just quietly slip into the night with nothing because the loving husband decided to banish her as “the other woman” once he got caught with his pants down. The proof is in the man’s behavior after the affair is exposed. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but ladies wake up, if the man was capable in engaging in a long-term affair and you take him back, the cycle will repeat. There is a reason for this, and it is usually quite narcissistic. Remember, it is not you who chooses the woman, but he, so whatever you don’t like about her doesn’t matter, he most likely uses her strengths to complement yours and vice versa, therefore he needs another woman to make his relationship with you whole. Sadly, it is the same with the mistress, either way it goes, one woman is not enough and he will be forever looking for multiple women to fill what he is in fact lacking himself.

    Just my thoughts,
    The Other Woman

    1. The other woman,

      You make some interesting points that I would like to comment on. I think it’s a given that the husband has the flaw. If you look at the overall site, almost every post is about the husband wife relationship, only two posts talk about the other women, so clearly my focus is on the husband and his actions. But I have and will continue to write thoughts about the other women occasionally if that is what I am thinking about on that particular day. You mention that you did not know he was married, but many women do. I know usually by that time feelings are involved it makes the situation harder. What I really wanted to portray in the post is that when you lack self-confidence and a man starts a relationship and you find out he is married, that factor doesn’t matter to MANY women because the husband has made the women feel good, and if you are starving for attention you will accept that ‘he is separated from his wife’. There are millions of women that lack self-esteem, many of them are young and immature (not all), and don’t really care about the impact of messing with a married man, they are just happy someone buys them dinner and movie – it happens all the time.

      Now you mention something about why is it expected that the OW slip into the night after the husband is caught. One is safety – seriously, you have no idea how devastating it is for the wife. I will tell you from your last comment not one single wife will have sympathy for you as the other women sorting through your ‘confusion and feelings’, I am not saying there are valid, but in no way compare to a wives situation, and I will explain why.

      For you, all you have to do is leave back to your normal life and deal with the ‘confusion and feelings’, the only thing you have to think about is ‘oh I loved him, i am sad’. And then you move on like any other single person does. The wife?? This is what we have to deal with. We can’t just leave like you, it’s not that easy. We have married this person – a legal document that binds us together. So if you started a business in the marriage and you leave – he gets half (this is not legal advice, this is just my opinion of the law). So, my husband that slept with another women gets half the business I started…great. If you sacrificed your career in order to raise your kids, now you have to think about the fact that if you leave, how will you support your kids. Even if you have a job, can I support myself and kids on just my income? If you have a house together, maybe neither of you can afford it on your own – so if you leave – foreclosure on your record. If you leave, your kids are crying every night saying why doesn’t daddy love us anymore or blames you because you left the marriage. There embarrassment from everyone knowing that your husband slept with another women. The husband is begging the wife to stay for whatever reason, why, is he sincere? Oh, I didn’t even get to the part about love and confusion and hurt from the betrayal from the one we dedicated our lives to. So you see, when women on this site reply back to you in a way that doesn’t portray the other woman in a positive light, know that we are stressed as hell trying to figure out what to do, in the meantime, you as the other women can sit back, and move on in an instant, only worrying about your feelings. Us – we often have to make a choice to lose everything we build since marriage in order to leave our husbands that we love and attempt to be happy, or stay and maintain the family structure, but be miserable. Not saying it always happens like I stated, but that is usually the way we feel. So when you say ‘wake up’ ladies, we have more more to think about than our husband cheating again, we have to think about our entire life. You might be able to just think about love, but not us. You might think it’s petty to console ourselves by pointing our character flaws in the other women, but you are stating that from your perspective, from our perspective, we have devastated kids, devastated wife, families that are torn apart, financial futures ruined, so if we need to console by pointing our character flaws in the other women – I say that is a very harmless coping mechanism, much better than some other severe coping alternatives that you don’t even want to hear about.

      Lastly, your last two lines were interesting. The first is mentioning that the husband needs the other women to make his relationship with the wife whole. I don’t believe that and the reason why is exactly what you stated in your last line. You see, a husband might think or the other women might think that they are ‘completing the marriage’, but the fact of the matter is, another women can never complete what a man lacks in himself. It doesn’t matter if you are the wife, the other women, or anybody. So while you think he may be happy being with the other woman and his wife, he is not, the lack is still there.

      I welcome opinions and perspectives from all parties involved (although I do not tolerate negative bashing), the way I feel is the more we get insight into the ‘other woman’s mindset’, the better for all parties involved.

  21. The other woman,
    Again I stand by what I stated earlier, both the spouse and the other woman or man have character flaws. You, being the other woman, can point and blame it all on the husband, but you did choose to participate in an affair with the husband. So you need to take responsibility for your actions and stop denying your part in the relationship.

  22. I have to say, in many cases the other woman knows the man is married, and even knows the wife.
    They are aware of what their actions will do.
    While it is the man at fault, the other woman is not blameless. Any woman that knowingly goes into a relationship with a man that is married, deserves any pain that she may feel.
    Just my opinion.
    I hope that one day, someone who chooses to sleep with a married person, be it male or female, has the same happen to them one day.

  23. I want to clarify that if the other woman had a personal relationship with the wife, it does indicate that she is disloyal, as is the husband. In all fairness if another woman does not know you, why does she owe you anything? People may not want to admit it, but our altruism has inherent limitations. In these cases, the main advantage that the wife has is the random variable of chronology. Again I stand by what I said, no one wins in these situation, but the husband is truly the liason. That other woman would mean nothing to you without the connection that is your husband. Is it not surprising that after the affair is discovered, the other woman is instantly expected to wear a scarlet letter? If the husband truly felt that way about the other woman, why did he pursue her in the first place? For the record, I didn’t know that my guy was married, but that’s a long story. Once I found out, of course it took some contemplation, confusion, those same things that plague the wife, trust me, there were feelings involved. I think some readers may have taken one statement and ran with it, and I said a lot more than that. I just feel its rather self righteous to command this other woman to place the wifes feelings above her own, when she is simply sorting through her own betrayal by a husband who is disloyal either way it goes! In my opinion demanding that the other woman take responsibility is antithetical and still gives husbands a hall pass because they are always forgiven while the so called other woman becomes the whipping boy. It is usually the other woman that ends the affair for various reasons but unfortunately it just leaves the position open, because men always find what they seek.

  24. Another other woman

    While I can’t disagree with what anyone says, I think that there is something every wife forgets when she blames the other woman. I keep hearing “a marriage is between two people” and that the other woman doesn’t belong in it. I agree. But, if a marriage is between two people, the fault needs to lie with those two people. I’m not blaming the wife, but she does have as much fault as the husband. Again, as stated above, this relates solely to long term relationships. I truly believe that if a wife is blind enough to ignore the signs of infidelity, or at a minimum, ignore the signs that her marriage is faltering, she is as much to blame as the husband. His choice to cheat may sound worse, but if you’re in his shoes and married to a woman to doesn’t seem to care about his feelings enough to work on the marriage… It is a two-way street, ladies.

    Also, don’t go blaming the other woman. She has zero allegiance to the wife or her family. It certainly sucks to be the wife, but the other woman does not owe her anything. Just as the wife doesn’t owe the other woman anything, even when told she is the love of her husband’s life.

  25. Another other woman

    Just for the record, I am a highly successful professional with two graduate degrees from top schools. The wife has a BA from a third tier university and zero social skills and friends (I know people who has met her). So, the theory that the husband dates “down” is blwon on my situation. He is as intelligent and successful as I am and we have been involved since before he met his wife. He never wanted to give me up and married her because he was getting older. I get what I want and don’t have to deal with whining or anything else. This works for me. She makes it work for me. So, perhaps, she is the one being used and not me. Just saying.

    1. When I say that they cheat down, it’s a general statement, of course there are exceptions. I find it hard to understand how a confident and successful woman would accept long term having part of a man, maybe you can help me understand. It seems like it works for you and I am really trying to see how that makes you happy. Did you not want to be the one to be married to him for fear that he would look at you as the ‘wife’ and not thte ‘secret mistress’? Because when you are the other woman, all you have to worry about is fun and love, being a wife is harder and much more difficult. This is just my opinion, I am not trying to put you down or put myself on a pedestal, just trying to understand how you come to be so content with your role with the husband. Are you ok with playing the other woman forever? The sad truth is if you are a women in this situation (the OW or wife), we are both being used, no need debating who is being used more.

      Also maybe you can help me understand how the wife is to blame. I seriously don’t get that. We meet our husbands, get married, vow to be together through thick and thin. Every marriage has it’s ups and downs. So yes you are correct, as wives we know when things are not perfect. I knew my husband was not happy, so as the dedicated wife, I tried to understand what was wrong, I tried to go to counseling, tried to talk, but that husband I know so well was not acting like the devoted husband he is. It was like he was putting up a wall. Come to find out he didn’t want to work on the marriage because someone else’s boobs were in his face, kinda hard to work on the marriage in that case, a bit of a distraction. Why work on a marriage when you have cake and ice cream for free – no incentive. So how is that my fault? Just as you state you don’t make that man walk up to you, as the wives, we don’t make our husbands go cheat, they are grown men and if they decide to go out and cheat, that is a reflection of how they handle life situations, in no way does that reflect poorly on the wife. But this seems to be a common theme that I hear from the other women so I am thinking maybe it comes from the husband feeding you how horrible wives we are to make the other women feel better. Just like the other lady stated, I think we are equally fed what we want to hear to make us feel good. With that said, yes, the husband is the main culprit. What many wives are trying to say that even though the husband is to blame, morally they just don’t understand how someone can knowingly sleep with a married man. It’s not that we are blaming you, it’s just that we think for you to know they are married and just happily walk in and sleep with a married man is just not right, no matter where the blame lies, I can blame my husband but still think it is wrong for a woman to know a man is married and continue to have a relationship with him. It’s like you are feeding into the husband’s games. Just my 2 cents!!!

  26. Another other woman.
    My husband did not change his behaviour at home at all. There were absolutely no signs of his cheating at all.
    Since discovering the affair, I have scrutinised every aspect of my marriage.
    My husband is a self employed man, who had the opportunity to work whatever hours he chose.
    Since the day I met him this has always been the case, and he always worked long hours.
    He would come home to me complaining about how busy he was, how much work he had on.
    He fitted in seeing his mistress, while I was at work, a job he insisted I got, before we married. I also worked with him, building his new business venture, after I had finished my day job.
    He also wanted to be security on a night club door. A job I did not want him to do, but he made clear that it was something he would enjoy, so eventually to keep him happy, I gave in. It was on a night doing that job his affair started!
    I have always had access to his mobile phone bills, so he got a pay as you go phone, but would leave it at work. Her number was blocked on his regular phone so if she tried to contact him at home, she couldn’t!
    He had also decided to finally get round to pay someone to do the much needed home improvements on our house, something he had been putting off for a long time.
    Maybe that was a guilt thing, but how could I have worked that out.
    He also became ill. He had a stroke, I nursed him back to health. He picked straight up from where he left off, as it was only 14 months after his stroke that their child was born!
    So please, someone explain to me where the warning signs were in my marriage.
    This is a man I had been with for 10 years when his affair started, married just under 3.
    Even when I was told of the affair, he lied his way out of it for 3 weeks.
    He used the ‘I’m too busy to even think about that’ card, and knowing how busy his work load was, I had no reason to not trust him.
    Without the letter detailing their affair, he would have continued to lie, until the DNA reported proved that he actually was the childs father.
    I am not naive, but believe me, there were NO warning signs in my marriage.
    I am not responsible for his actions. He is! He did it because he did, because he could. That’s the only explanation I have had!
    Do I blame the other woman? Yes as she knew he was married and she chased him for 5 years. That I witnessed, and there is no doubt.
    But it is not her I am angry with, it is him. He made the commitment to me, he stood in front of our family and friends, to promise to me he would forsake all others. He wanted to get married! So ultimately my anger lies with him!

    1. Caz,

      My case was different, because my husband did show some signs of being unhappy and doing things out of the norm. In your case, which is the case of many, I think what happens is that you trust your husband, you are so loyal and dedicated that when he says he is coming home late because of work – you believe him – who would of thought that was a crime! I see that the OW believe that is called turing a blind eye, but I don’t believe that, I think it is just that you are such a trusting and loyal person, that you actually believed your husband when he told you those things, because you trusted your husband.

  27. Jewels
    You are right. The best part of my situation is, I worked in a school, so was out at all work all day every day. He made sure that he mainly met up with her then.
    How would I have a clue where he was if I was working anyway.
    I find it amazing how any OW thinks it is acceptable to blame the wife.
    The OW in my situation begged him to leave me, he told me he was truthful to her, and that he never would.
    By that point he was in a no win situation (obviously his own doing, not nevertheless) as if he carried on seeing her, I could easily find out, as people were already starting to know what he was doing.
    If he stopped seeing her, I would find, as she made it clear she would tell me.
    Believe me, I feel no sympathy for him, but I do feel that his affair was started partly on her side, by her hatred on me.
    For him, he always thought he was Jack The Lad, and obviously needed his ego stroking just a bit more.
    Now he has no one. The process we are going through at the minute, (of me wanting to leave, him knowing, but me being unable as I can’t find a house) is resulting in him blaming me for everything that went wrong. It being my fault that he cheated.
    No way. It is a flaw in his character, not mine!

  28. Again I stand by what I said earlier, anyone who cheats with a married person has serious character flaws. Do these other women not know what is morally right or do they just not care. For the ones who say they have no allegiance to wives, shame on them. Has this world come to me first, heck on everyone else. I hope the ow never have to depend upon someone else for health care, emotional support, friendship or any other connection. They certainly don’t care about anyone but themselves. How pathetic. I know my husband was 1/2 of the problem, but the other woman was the other 1/2. I did nothing wrong, so for all the ow saying it’s the wives fault, grow up.

  29. “If you marry a man who cheated on his wife , you will be married to a man who cheats on his wife”
    What goes around comes around! Karma!!

  30. I have been trying to help my best friend who is in a situation much like some of yours. Her husband is a Surgeon, she is a stay at home mom with 2 children one of which has autism. Her husband is also a alcoholic and currently hospitalized with his girlfriend sitting by his bed nurseing him back to health(PUKE!). It’s a very long story but to try and make it short this is the third time he has cheated on her (that she knows of) she has tried everything to make it work but to be blunt he is a flippin nut case!! I just want her and the kids to be happy and safe. Any advise any of you can give me on how to help her would be great. She is so scared and confused. The thought of the kids going for visits with him after they divorce(if they divorce) scares her to dealth! I think that is why she has put up with it for so long.

  31. I am not bashing what the wives are saying, I am simply offering another perspective. There is a reason why the other women tend to think one way and the wives the other, it is simply a matter of perspective. Yes, the wives are within their rights to not be concerned with the mistress’ feelings, but the same is true with the mistress. What all of the other women seem to be saying is that, why should I accept the blame or that I have an inherent character flaw, when the cheater sought me out? If that man was so interested in working on his marriage and only his wife, then why did he keep nestling his face in those boobs? I am also an educated woman with a dual BA from a top tier university, and near completion of my master’s degree. I am a single mother, I work full time, I pay my own bills and have all of the problems you mentioned, plus some. His wife is younger than I am, and is an out-of-work medical assistant, with no children. I was involved with a man that was disloyal as all women involved in love triangles are, you are missing the overall point I was trying to make. My child often asks me where this man is, because although he is not his father, he often played the role, my whole family knew this guy as well, he played the part! So what is my character flaw exactly? Because I have difficulty casting my feelings away for someone who I had no original allegiance to, and our only connection was the cheater. Again, he did the same thing to both women. He told both women lies, of course he didn’t treat the other woman how he’s presenting it to you or there would be no affair, it would have been a one-night stand! There is a reason why wives want to question the morality of the other woman, it is the same reason why the cheater often throws the other woman under the bus, when caught. Stereotypes exist for a reason and that is to maintain the status quo. The original post was very stereotypical in saying that the other woman is often less intelligent, less attractive, less educated, etc. I think several so-called other women have deconstructed that theory. All I’m saying at the end of the day, the other woman feels the same way about the wife! The cheating husband has ensured that you two will not be friends, that way HE wins. While the women are going after each other, as they so often do, the cheater is on to his next conquest. If you read my first post in its entirety, you will see that I said, the cheater is the one who is incomplete, he was obviously trying to make something complete by taking on another relationship. Whether he goes back to the original relationship or decides to begin a new one with the mistress, he will do the same thing because he is TRYING to make up for what he, himself is lacking. I did not say he found this with the other woman, he never will, but that is HIS character flaw. Women are evolutionarily competitive and that is reality, so unless the other woman has previous ties to the wife, I still fail to see her character flaw because she doesn’t owe you anything. Again I can understand why you would be dismissive of the other woman’s feelings, but don’t expect them to care about yours either. I cannot speak for other women, but I thinks it’s safe to say “other women” agree, I do not have a responsibility to accept your opinion that I’m any less of a woman or there is something wrong with my character because I am only guilty of doing the same things you are! Make no mistake about this, I am not blaming the wife, just as I am not blaming the other woman. Caz, your statement at the end, sums up my sentiments as well. I simply want the wives to understand that while you may not like the other woman, trust she doesn’t like you either, and it’s because the cheater has made it that way! At the end of the day, I still contend that the husband is entirely to blame, because he has successfully broken the hearts of two women, and left them to continue to pour salt in each other’s wounds in many cases.

  32. I actually feel sorry for any woman who would sleep with a married man. Even with all those degree you all love to tell everyone about the things you lack are, class, dignity& pride! Those are things that can’t be taught in a class room.

  33. I want to also clarify that if you take a poll with “mistresses” and ask how many ever anticipated that they would be involved in an affair, maybe you might be shocked at how low the number is. For the record, I have NO problems finding men, I am attractive, intelligent, and independent. One of the first things I do is look for a ring. Based on past experience I also ask men, flat-out, are you married, or previously engaged. This is based on past experience. My point was that the wives seem to be asking the other woman to do what they didn’t. Going into the relationship the cheater is LYING to the other woman, let;s be realistic here! So just as he is lying to the wife and she is not to be faulted for believing those lies, why should the other woman. I have low self-esteem because I believe a man that I just met is separated? Or I believe that he is a hard-worker too? I wasn’t hidden, he took me out all of the time, he was there for me financially when I was down, he did things for my child that his father didn’t even do. Those are the reasons I fell in love with him, and trust me, again he was playing the part. So why is that I deserve everything I get, based on his lies and betrayals and the wife does not. His intentions were originally disloyal, unless the other woman has ties and expections of loyalty to the wife, hers were not. A marriage is a legal contract between the wife and the husband, if he desired to be true to that, he would not have gone out of his way to decieve another woman. I cheater is a liar, so why do you think that he lies to you and tells the truth to the other woman. If there are cases were the man is being honest or the other woman knows the situation, i.e. she is the wife’s best friend, then SHE has a character flaw because her intentions were disloyal from the start! Yes, the wife shall be subjective, but so shall the other woman. That’s all I’m saying, this debate is age-old and will not change because it is simply a matter of perspective, honestly. So, I am sorry that the wife was unfortunate enough to love a liar and cheater, unfortunately the mistress is guilty of doing the same- LOVING a liar and a cheater. I decided to leave because it was not just the wife, eventually I found evidence of him cheating with other women as well, because that’s his M.O. So again, while he has pitted the wife and the other woman against each other, he is on to his next conquest and now he has gotten a little more crafty at being able to conceal it. So maybe a little compassion for the other woman may actually do more than you think, as paradoxical as it may seem. But it allows both women to stop displacing their anger and forces men to take responsibility. I’ll leave you with this- how many men are on these types of sites? The number is very low, they are not ruminating or rehashing these things, it is the women and trust me they know and bank on this and that’s why it’s perpetuated.

  34. Please be careful in making judgements and grouping all “other women” into one category. I believe that attacking people’s characters and lumping them into one category is, in fact, “bashing” them. I know that only a small segment of the population is fortunate enough to reach post-conventional morality, so I may be spinning my wheels here, but beware of over-simplifying things, because if it were that simple, this would not be an age-old debate. I just hope that you are never unfortunate enough to find yourself in the situation, best friend, as the wife or the other woman 🙂

  35. The Other Woman

    One more thing, lol one could obviously write a book on this, from either perspective! Caz and Jewels I respect what you both are saying and I feel like I really am saying the same thing, because what we all had in common is that we were strong enough to leave! We are simply speaking from opposite perspectives. There is no cookie-cutter situation, I am simply trying to help the wives understand that what you so often dislike in the other woman is reflective of your own flaws, and its much easier to project them on someone that you already have a vested interest in disliking. THE SAME APPLIES TO THE OTHER WOMAN. Wives and mistresses are often way more similar than either would care to admit, and there is a reason for that. The reason is the cheating husband! Being trusting and naive is certainly not a crime, but why does it become one if it applies to that other woman, those are the questions that I am asking. So I don’t think that the wife needs to take any responsibility prior to the affair, but I honestly just want to know what responsibility the mistress has and how she is not living up to it. Caz, if that woman did not like you, then why do you think she would make a decision that is beneficial to you? Unfortunately your disloyal husband gave her room to do more damage than she ever could have done herself, that’s all I’m saying.

  36. I know that this is a place set up for women who have been cheated on at a variety of levels, so I try to take most of what is said here with grain of salt. But, I truly thought that the wives knew what their husbands were saying. For long term affairs, usually at first the OW doesnt know that they are married, they are told that they are ” seperated” or “divorcing”. They can’t move out for finacial reasons yet, etc. They tell us that you are abusive, dont love them, control them, ignore them, have your own affairs, etc. They say everything they can to make us beleive you are this horrible horrible women. Seriously. For most, we aren’t “after” your husbands. I have a friend who has been dating a man for a year now, and just found out he is still married—and LIVES with his wife. He travels for work so it was easy for him to live this dual life. But now she is in love with him, he says he loves her, but he doesnt want to leave his kids.

    And with all due respect here, yes the husband and the ow do not have the binding agreement through the law, but often times they arejust as emotionally involved and interconneced in the OW’s family. They get close to the kids…of which eventually they will NEVER see them again after the relationship is over. Those kids dont understand, and the OW is being lied to also.

    No one is in the right in this sitituation….its all bad and ugly. For the wives, you have to see what part you played in the demise of your marriage and you have to decide if you can ever trust this person and move on….move on from this point forward and not look back. Fix what was broken and hope you BOTH dont fall into the same bad patterns. For the OW she has to pick up all the peices, explain to her childen how they will NEVER see this person again…whom they now love, Her family and friends…embarassing for her too, plus she loved him too…her own emotional battle. For the husband he has to live with the guilt and temptaion that will never go away.

  37. I am amazed that OW try to justify their actions, wow. I guess anything to live with what you have done. Is the person in the mirror really who you want to see? I still stand by what I said earlier… OW/OM and the cheating spouses have the character flaws not the wives or husbands who have been cheated on.

  38. Um actually my husband had an affair and was an alchoholic who was not necessarily nice all the time to me or our kids. So I am sure that living with that for 10 years had produced some kind of effect on me. And I know that I have flaws. We are divorced now. Yes I sought comfort in a married man, of which I thought was going through something similar…who also told me he was divorcing his wife. He was helping me through a really hard time….why wouldnt I trust him when he says he is getting a divorce?

    JackieO, nobody is perfect or without flaws, once someone can recognize them they can usually accept those flaws and move on. Lots of couples survive an affair once they both see what happened in thier own relationship. I am sure you are not without flaws. As I am sure your husband is not flawless now either.

    Again…no one is blaming the wife here. In fact, I thought it would be helpful to know what husbands who cheat say to the OW. Becuase that is a truth they will never tell you.

    1. Other Woman, I think you are right in that we are saying the same things, just at opposite ends of the spectrum. It’s interesting to read a perspective that is totally different from mine, and while I do not accept or condone the actions (I don’t think I will ever be ok with justifying a long term affair, knowing a man is married), I can read and listen from your view point. Yes you probably think what I wrote was stereotypical, but it’s just my own perspective based on what I have observed, so of course your view would be totally different, because you are looking at life from a different angle than me.

      Kylie, I never really took the time to think that a husband would engage the other women in that way, visiting the OW’s family and children. I know it happens, but just never really thought of it happening that much.

      The trails of life.

  39. Dear Other Woman,

    You say you have no problem finding men so why don’t you find someone you can call your own instead of interfering with someone else’s marriage? Why do you have to stoop so low if you have an abundance of men at your feet? I mean seriously woman, get real.

    Any woman who knowingly interferes in a marriage has issues. Shame on you. It doesn’t matter whether the man doesn’t have a perfect wife, it’s not your place to interfere.

    Just goes to show you can be qualified or whatever, doesn’t make you perfect even though you think you are better than his poor wife. And here you are talking about how the other woman should not be judged. I think Jewels is right in her article. You’re so desperate you need to reassure yourself and build up your self esteem by putting your paws on a married man.

    Geez. Take a good look at yourself and what you are doing. You don’t deserve respect.

  40. Be aware that many of these cheating husbands and boyfriends actually lie that they are single. Most women out there who would not get into a relationship with a man they know is married or in a relationship with someone else. We also need to develop tools to protect ourselves from ending up in a situation we think is real, but where we are really just being conned and another woman and even entire family is getting hurt. Remember if you can take him from someone else, then someone else can just as easily take him from you. Avoiding dating married men or men with girlfriends is a challenge all single women have to deal with, not getting conned. It can get to where men think you’re paranoid but if they are honest about wanting a serious relationship they shouldn’t be overly bothered by us being careful. Men who want to cheat can be really tricky and they will always lie to you if you are a woman who is interested in a real relationship with a really single man. Single women have to be even more clever than they are and not get tricked.

  41. First I have to say that Jewels I commend you for what you are doing here an applaud your efforts. You have created a great place for women to come who have been and felt betrayed and are looking for answers. You are also providing a great deal of support and that is great!

    Second, for all of the women who are in fact OTHER WOMEN and are commenting on this site-Get a life! I really would like you to sit down and have this talk with the wife of the man that you are/were the other woman too. Coming on here and saying what you have to say about being an other women isn’t going to change the fact that you had a hand in screwing up some other woman’s life. Trying to place the blame on the wife or the husband, anyone but yourself really says a lot about who you are. What are you looking for here-Validation? Are you looking for any one of us to sit here and tell you that it’s ok? That we consider how you feel as well? That as the wife we are going to take the blame for our husbands cheating ways and just give you a hall pass to make you feel better about what you have done? That we are going to sit here and JUST blame our husbands-WRONG!

    I can tell you right now that no matter HOW educated, beautiful, intelligent, etc. that you say you are-You do in fact have self esteem issues and your words speak volumes as too your issues and your lack of character as well.

    If you did not feel some sort of shame, some sort of blame for what happened in your extra marital affair, you wouldn’t be here trying to “explain” your side of hell. If you did in fact have a decent amount of self esteem, you wouldn’t be on THIS site trying to tell everyone HOW intelligent you are, WHAT degrees you hold, etc. Any self respecting woman knows that her worth, value, esteem is not held by measurable things.

    If you had self esteem and self worth, you wouldn’t be sitting here on this site trying to get a woman who has been deeply wounded to her core to try and “understand” your side of the issue. If you didn’t feel somewhat responsible for what happened to another woman’s marriage, you wouldn’t be here trying to “explain” your side of things and you definitely wouldn’t feel personally hurt by the things that are said on here about other women.

    Also with your words on an open site that is dedicated to help women who have been betrayed to find the light at the end of the tunnel, it speaks volumes as to what kind of a person you are. You seem to care very little of what the wife may be going through and only want to plaster your feelings all over the hearts of those who have been betrayed by men whom they thought were their life partners. There are sites for that, there are sites for people like you who find NO BLAME in what they have done, no shame in what they have done and no care in the world. Go find one!

    Saying HERE of all places that you have more worth, and basically that you were better than the wife-your a complete joke chalked full of mental and emotional issues. My guess would be that you feel deeply and utterly betrayed to find out that you weren’t all that you thought you were or are starting to figure that out. If I had to take another guess-he choose the lesser degree having mother of his children over you! How ironic!

    Either way I am sure that the woman who come here to figure out the WTF behind the WTF really do not want to feel how wrapped up and self absorbed you are. So, my suggestion is that you find a site for other completely self absorbed, self important, esteem lacking women like yourself who like to prey on what they can’t have and stay there.

    I would also suggest a great deal of counseling for that denial you are in. It’s not just a river in Egypt honey. You might want to start with-Why do I find myself in a situation where I completely wrecked another person’s marriage by being sexually and emotionally available to a man that just wanted sex from me and lied to me to obtain that. Why did I feel like this was love?

    I suggest you dig deep into that bottomless pit you call a heart and deal! After all, because of women like you that is what we BS have to do.

  42. I’m also “The Other Woman,” and one thing i know for certain is that when the man gets caught, and begs the wife not to leave him, it’s not because he loves her and cant bear to live without her. It’s because he loves himself and his status as a good family man and his lifestyle, and he cant bear to live without that. He cant bear to lose half his money paying alimony and child support, can’t bear to lose his home, cant bear to be deprived of his kids, can’t bear to be seen for what he really is-a lying cheating scumbag. So for all you wives out there who thinks he’s begging you to stay with him and left the mistress because he LOVES you SO MUCH–if he loved you so much he wouldn’t be cheating on you in the first place. If he quits cheating, it’s only because he got caught, or the mistress got fed up and dumped him. Never ever ever does he quit cuz he wakes up one night and thinks to himself, “Gee, i feel kinda bad about this, i should probably stop.” He’ll keep cheating for as long as he can get away with it. i’m 11 weeks pregnant now from the married man i was seeing. The day i found out i was pregnant, i called his wife and told her everything. He stopped speaking to me since then. If i hadn’t of told her, he’d still be cheating on her with me every night. The way i see it is this-if she’s dumb enough and pathetic enough to take him back, she can have him. i still have the chance to find someone who is decent and wont cheat, but she’s stuck with that loser forever. As for saying the other woman typically has no self-esteem–probably this is true, but a wife who puts up with a husband who repeatedly cheats on her and lies to her obviously has no self-esteem either. Ever since the married man left me, the cloud has lifted from my mind and i finally was able to see him and the situation for what it really was–a perverted bored old married guy bored with his wife and using me for sex. If she want him she can have him. He doesnt deserve me or our child. She told me she thinks i’m lying about being pregnant, and he convinced her i’m crazy and making it up. i cant wait to take them to court next spring and sue him for child support. i dont want him anymore, but i see a fat paycheck coming my way, and since they are self-employed caterers, business partners, she’s going to have to write that check every month and see about $3000 of her hard earned money going into my bank account. They don’t believe me now, and that’s fine with me. i can wait. 7 months is nothing. Revenge is dish best served cold. He can get away from me, but he can’t get away from paying me for the next 18 years, and it serves them right.

  43. Kylie,
    I hope you get married to a man who cheats on you and gets another woman pregnant…then you will have to pay the check every month. What goes around comes around and you my friend have bad karma…

  44. Jewels:

    I find the attack Posted on November 1 2011 at 3:43Pm to be a verbally abusive attack/threat on me. I would like to request that this woman be removed from these boards. I have also posted the message she posted below:

    JackieO November 1, 2011 at 3:43 PM

    I hope you get married to a man who cheats on you and gets another woman pregnant…then you will have to pay the check every month. What goes around comes around and you my friend have bad karma…

  45. Kylie,
    You are the one who stated that you can’t wait to sue the man and his wife for child support and get yours. How is my comment an attack on you? All I stated is that you have bad karma and that isn’t a threat. Again this comment board was for women who have had husbands who cheated on them with other women. You are the other woman, find a new board to write your complaints on.

  46. JackieO,

    I did not state that. But…now looking back it looks like there are 2 Kylie’s on this board. I am not the one who wrote the last statement. I thought you were commenting on my post on October 27th.

  47. Kylie,
    Why would you want to hurt this mans wife so badly? What is it that she did to you?
    I have the answer, she did nothing wrong, she just hapens to be the wife of a man that decided to cheat on her, with you!
    How irresponsible are you? Getting pregnant to a married man! But there again, maybe it was planned! maybe you felt he would leave her for you, or maybe you saw the $$$, which seem more important to you than the fact you are having a child.
    Your post comes across as being very immature and vindictive, towards the wife. You say that a cloud has been lifted, but you are very bitter!
    Why would you want to tie yourself to this man forever, by having this child, if you have so much hatred for him?
    The worst day of my life was the day my husbands mistress informed me she was pregnant! As explained in my previous posts, nothing had changed in my relationship, and I was completely oblivious to the fact he had been having an affair.
    Maybe you are hoping that one day his wife will say she has had enough, and he will come running to you, tail between his legs!
    Whether that happens or not, remember you will always be second best. You were the mistress not the wife, even having his child didn’t manage to get you an upgrade, in fact you got down graded.
    I hope one day his wife sees what he is and has the strength to move on, but I hope that for her sake not yours.
    I also feel for the child you are bringing into the world, as chances are that poor innocent child will not have contact. You will have to raise a child, who will discover one day that it was unwanted by its father!
    You also say that you have the chance to meet a decent man that won’t cheat. Don’t bank on that! If karma smacks you in the mouth, one day you could be in the same situation as his wife.
    Wouldn’t that be a shame!

  48. Kylie,
    I hope that man and his wife sue you for custody of your soon to be child. After reading your post it is very clear that you are not fit to raise a child. Karma…..

  49. Other Women,
    In my situation my husband had an affair with a married women who knew me and knew he was married. She went around our gym telling everyone that her Dentist husband abused her kids, her marriage was bad and she was just waiting until her twins graduate to leave him. Yes she likes her Mercedes, plastic surgery, big home, etc… So she found her savior, my husband. She is quite the flirt and has quite the reputation and well my husband needed just what she was dishing out, ego stroking without having to live daily with the man. Whenever my husband would talk to her then he hit me with our marriage was bad, you did this, etc…. Well little does she know that my husband deals with anxiety, depression, self esteem issues and I could also say he abused our boys. He was tough on our boys and I even had neighbors come over to say that according to my husband, our son could do nothing right. Yep, many heard it. Difference is I did not go around telling people and making sure everyone knew how bad my marriage was.

    So as the other women I have no respect for you as you do not have any for yourself. Yes my husband is very much at fault and just began therapy and has a long road ahead of him. As for me, I am learning I did nothing wrong but provide a warm and loving household, raised our 3 boys, supported him even when he lost jobs and screwed up, and tried helping him to deal with his anxiety. I also supported his need for his space, gym 4x a week, mountain biking several times a week, etc… building his sports car.

    There is no way anyone can justify behavior and an affair based on lies, no integrity, secrecy and the betrayal of the spouse. Marriage is a contract and if every State would return the “Alienation of Affection” law then many more would take the marriage contract seriously.

    Oh and education does not equate to common sense nor integrity. All I know is I can look at myself in the mirror and honestly say I am a good, honest, caring women.

  50. Comments like these dont bother me. i know the cheating husband is the one at fault and the wives are just jealous. id rather be the other woman than the clueless wife who gets cheated on any day. He’s the one who took vows to love and honor his wife forever, not me. As for Jules comment, that is down right laughable. Obviously you know absolutely nothing about family law. No judge in his right mind would take a baby away from a perfectly decent mother and give it to a cheating husband and his wife, who by the way i’m sure absolutely hates me and wants nothing to do with her husbands new child. He’ll be lucky if he gets supervised visitation once a month in some kind of facility, with case workers breathing down his neck the entire time. And i dont want her to leave him. If she leaves him, she’ll take the business with her and there goes my money. i hope she stays with him forever and continues to work her little tail off to fill my pockets. i dodged a bullet when he left me, she’s the one left stuck with a cheater and a liar. The fact that he is going to continue to lie to her throughout my entire pregnancy just to save face is going to make it ten times worse for her when she realizes that i was telling the truth all along, and not only did her husband cheat, but he also didnt have the balls to be honest about it and at least let her mentally and emotionally prepare for what lies ahead. When all is said and done, i’ll have gotten over $300,000 out of them by the time the child is 18. So as far as karma goes, which is nonsense anyways and there’s no such thing, but for all you scorned wives who hope for bad karma to befall the other woman, you can keep waiting all you want, but maybe him and his wife losing $300,o00 is HIS bad karma for being a cheating lying scumbag, did you ever think of that? And by the way he has 3 young daughters. That money could have gone to them. Not only is he a rotten husband but obviously he’s a terrible father as well. i would never want someone like him around my child. If his wife thinks he’s good for those girls, she can have him. They’ll grow up expecting the same from all men, and probably getting it, because their mom set the example: if you husband cheats on you and lies to you, dont be strong and leave him, be a weakling and keep him cuz you’re so desperate to hang on to the “image” of the perfect little family.

  51. Wow Kylie, once again your post speaks volumes. It sounds like this child to you is more of a cash cow than a human being. This child deserves so much more and you are using your pregnancy for financial gain, shame on you. In some States the Court could very well take the child away as a 2 parent household is more favorable. So if I were you and for your child’s sake, get yourself into serious therapy before bringing this baby into the world.

  52. Not in my state. In my state the mother always wins full custody unless she’s some kind of meth-crazed freak and the baby is born addicted to drugs or something, which is nothing like me. In fact, the father is a pot head. If he even demands visitation, all i have to do is demand court-ordered drug tests. Of course, he’ll fail.

  53. The Other Woman

    So I’ve spoken so much on this I guess I don’t really feel anymore desire to try to defend myself against people who don’t have the capacity or desire to listen. To the writer that told me to get a life, no you get one! You don’t know me or anything about me, so what gives you the right to judge? Attitudes like yours are what give cheaters a free pass all the time, so congrats! Again, I did not know he was married. We dated on and off for two years, he got married two months prior to us breaking up. I found out a month prior to leaving him. You sound absolutely ridiculous! We got together because he pursued me and lied to keep me there. By the way, I happen to be a social worker currently working in foster care. The child would only be removed from the birth mother if they tested positive for illegal substances or were otherwise charged with child endangerment or neglect. To the wives who are willing to step outside of themselves and realize that the world does not revolve around them- good luck to you and you will find the man you deserve, to those who choose to come on here and set up a general crusade against all women who have been branded as the other woman- you will get or keep the one you deserve too-a cheater. So trust me, your respect means nothing to me. Your condescending attitude and judgement actually make you simple and bitter- so yes Karma is a quite the bitch, I just hope you have no reason for her to seek you out 🙂

  54. The Other Woman

    Kylie, I’m not justified your hatred toward his wife, but I understand. I empathize with a lot of what you are saying because of our similar perspective. Are these women missing the point that the position can change at any given time? They conveniently overlook that you were, at first, the wife being cheated on. Again, I ask women like Jules and whoever else, what gives you the right to judge my character or my self-esteem. Jewels mentioned in an earlier post that the mistress should fade quietly into the night for fear of her safety, but then the same applies to the wife! I thought I was pregnant, it turned out “my guy’s wife” really was… The sad thing is these women will never know or understand what these husbands say to their mistresses or do for them. They will never know the true reason their husband sought out the mistress and why she acquiesced, most likely against her better judgement. PLEASE STOP THROWING STONES FROM A GLASS HOUSE! Stop asking other women to accept that they are lower than you, simply because you and/or your turncoat, lying husband says so. If you truly acknowledge that your husband is at fault why be concerned with the other woman? No one expects you to like her, but don’t expect her to like you either or deal with your garbage. In response to the commenter whose name I will not bother to try and recall, obviously I did move on to the other men who were pursuing me, hence me leaving. I’m not quite sure of the point you were making -_-

  55. The Other Woman

    Lastly, if you wish that these “other women” get cheated on by their husbands on account of karma… then didn’t your husband cheat on you on account of karma? Oh… we pick and choose, I’m certain all of us lowly sinners are infinitely grateful that you aren’t God 🙂

  56. Other Woman and Kylie, I can judge your character by your posts. One of you stated you had not idea your man was married, well in that case he was a true looser. In my case she knew we were married, she knew we had 3 boys, she knew enough about me to stalk me at my once a week coffee group and she got caught! She knew enough to feel threatened by me as I am as real as you get, also kind, thoughtful and even thought I could forgive her. But not now as she continues her fishing and sending messages via mutual friends. Plus she continues lying to her own husband and I called him to let him know exactly what she has been saying and what she was up too.

    I have taken the high road as the other woman means nothing to me, she is not worthy of my time nor respect. But what I do have is a huge support system, family that cares and loves me and children who know that their Dad royally screwed up and they also know who this Other Woman is and they have no respect for her at all. Now to get my boys into therapy so they will know how to treat a woman and their future wives.

    I do know someone that left their wife for their affair partner, he lost his family, his children and all his friends and is miserable in his second marriage. He is a sad, lonely man with a lot of regrets, he tried to leave his 2nd wife but his first wife said she had moved on and to live with his choices. Sad, sad, sad… The saddest part are the children, the older ones by his first wife have nothing to do with their father.

    1. Now I think it’s time to put a STOP to this …please read.

      About this site – The purpose of this site is to help women recover from the pain of finding out their husband cheated. I welcome and accept stories from wives, and perspectives from other parties. But what I do not tolerate much of it putting down another woman in a disrespectful way. I have been on the verge of deleting some comments on this post because I like to keep the site focused on helping another woman with affair recovery, sharing stories, and providing perspective.

      While I haven’t made a decision yet, I am more than likely going to delete many of the comments today because they do not align with the goals on the site (from both parties). Tons of other sites where people can put down other people constantly. I do understand that the tone of my post may of set the tone of the comments, and I accept my responsibility in setting that tone, but do not have to agree to continue to allow it.

      I understand my post may come off as putting down the other woman. But my intention was to shed my perspective on what I saw from my personal eyes at the time I wrote the post, my intention was not to put down or slam the other woman.

      Kylie (the one who is the other woman) – Your post earlier today was very interesting. The entire point of me writing this post was to show that many times the other women lacks self-esteem, and by your comment earlier today, you showcased my point and I believe I know exactly why you are on this site.

      Usually when a person puts another person down or has nothing positive to say verbally or written, they lack self-esteem and are projecting how they feel about themselves at the time. If you internally are upset inside, then all you can give is something that will make others upset.

      Kylie something inside you is bothering you, I think that is the case because the husband totally stopped contacting you after you told the wife, and now you have his baby. So you are probably hurt and angry, and since he won’t talk to you, somehow you found this site and used it to release your frustrations with your own situation by writing here. You know this is a site for wives, you know that your comments was negative, and I believe your intention was to get attention because you are not getting it at home. Your comment actually seems like it’s directed at the wife in your particular situation (the reason he is with you is not love, seems very personal), it’s a comment someone would say if they are angry or hurt, which I think is happening in your case.

      I am not saying this in anyway to put you down, all I am saying is that I see through your comments about the wives, I don’t see a person who is mean or crazy, I see one hurt woman trying to get someone to listen, and this is an audience that would, probably one of the only audiences that would respond at this time in your life.

      Your comment about the money was interesting as well. Since when was is a pride and joy to get a check from a father instead of the father being around? What about the little baby who is not going to have a male figure? 3000 a month is not going to replace the impact that the entire situation is going to have on your child. If someone offered me 3000 a month in exchange for my kids father not to be in there life, I wouldn’t take it at all, a dad that is in a child’s life growing up is invaluable. You seem almost proud that you are getting money, and not worried at all about how the child will be raised and the impact this entire situation that will have, 3000 a month is going to make your troubles go away. But again, I see that you are in pain and starving for something to be happy about, so I get it.

      Lastly Kylie, it appears that you were offended with some of the responses. In all honesty, if you write a comment like what you wrote, you have to be prepared for the comments. Now I understand things happen and sometimes we say things and later want to take them back, so if you are uncomfortable with what you wrote and want to delete it I will do that. Otherwise, you will be getting many similar comments (unless I make the call to delete the comment myself).

      Wives – I am done entertaining such comments, and will request that you do the same. I have women that really need help that I need to focus on, so I can’t spend too much time on such comments. I want to focus on helping women, not defending comments that are putting each other down. So I am going to request that everyone give no more energy towards the comments from earlier today. It’s not worth the effort and if the comments continue to reflect a negative tone, I will not approve the comments in order to have comments align with the goals of the site.

      Kylie – if you have enough courage to admit the pain you are in then you are welcome to write about it, right now the past comments have been about others, haven’t shared much. If you want to write about something negative towards the wives, it will not get posted or stay posted for long.

      Side Note : To: The Other Woman – I did not focus on your comment because Kylie is in a different place, BUT once sentence you wrote stuck out and I felt the need to clarify. I felt like something I wrote that you mentioned could be taken out of context (either by accident or on purpose), let me clarify the safety statement. My exact sentence stated “One is safety – seriously, you have no idea how devastating it is for the wife.” When a person is devastated they sometimes act in ways that they normally don’t act, so I was trying to get you to realize the emotional state of wives after an affair is no joke, it’s not funny, it’s not something to flaunt, it’s serious, it’s painful and I would not encourage any ‘other woman’ to do the opposite of ‘fading/slipping into the background ‘ after the wife finds out. It’s too unstable of a time to be in the forefront flaunting the affair. The way you wrote your last post, it was implying something different, so I wanted to clarify.

      Back to helping other women – Jewels

  57. The Other Woman

    Jules, I am not trying to be funny here when I say that maybe you think more highly of yourself than anyone else does, especially your husband. You discussing her on this sight and further displacing your anger on her and these nameless women who had the unmitigated gall to *pause*-comment on this site is giving her way more time and attention than you would care to admit. So judging by how highly you view yourself and how you think you have the right to judge people that you don’t know know at all based on a sliver of information that you didn’t bother to thoroughly read- your character shines through as well, and I’m not so sure you have room to cast stones- so congrats you have just been judged based on your post 🙂

    ~Even Jesus was betrayed

  58. Jewels,
    In all fairness if this is a site that is designed to address recovery from the affair, then how do you sensor all sides except that of the wife? I have not put anyone down, I simply responded to those who put me down. In response to the safety comment, I understand perfectly what you are saying because it is not a joke to the other woman either. If she has enough nerve to approach you, have you considered that her emotional state is unstable as well, she is devastated as well. Just as you consider all sides of his infidelity because you have a vested interest in doing so, so does the other woman. After I left, my guy contacted me a couple of times, I turned him down. Somehow his wife found out and came after me, yet again. Don’t fool yourselves into thinking that he doesn’t try to mend that relationship too because he cares about her too, usually. I am simply giving a little insight into the perspective of the other woman, who after all, was the topic of this post. To stifle comments from that perspective seems a little narrow-minded. Again, you are assessing this woman’s and my self-worth based on an anonymous comment on an ,albeit, biased blog. I guess I’m still confused on how the mistress has such low self-esteem, yet the wife has such high self-esteem to continue to affiliate with the same lying, cheating, and disloyal husband who took up with this villainous mistress in the first place. Just as you can say that the mistress has a character flaw, or is delusional, or has low self-esteem, the overlying point is that she can and most likely will say the same thing about you. Even sadder, is that the loving husband is the one who painted that picture of you. So again I ask, when is he telling the truth, when he’s trashing you and telling her how much he loves her,or when he’s throwing her under the bus and asking you to stay? Honestly, I don’t see where Kylie was trashing anyone, I think she was simply frustrated with the self-righteousness on this site. So Jewels, with all due respect, should you choose to remove my posts, your sensorship is duly noted. What is your psychoanalytic view of why the wives are so self-righteous? Could it be for that reason that you find these mistresses harboring hatred or resentment toward you? For fear that my analysis will be deleted I’ll leave it at this and, I guess, devote all of this extra time I have towards making a site for mistresses and deleting oppositional commentary o_O

    1. The Other Woman,

      You are correct, the site is designed to address recovery from the affair, and if you are the other women and have a perspective to share great, but once you start getting into calling people weaklings and desperate and he never loved you, etc. etc., that does nothing to help anyone, and if I decide to sensor it, I will because I pride this site as being one that does not put up with name calling and putting other women down. This website is a reflection of my personality, and I don’t do that in person, so I will not allow that to be reflected on the site. And as the site owner, I can decide to do that. I never claimed this to be a free for all site, there are many of those sites, just not mine. Again, if you have a perspective, great. But once it gets into negative derogatory statements against anyone (including comments directed towards the other woman), I do not stand for that. I know the emotional state of most of the women on the site and I know what a derogatory statement aimed at someone can do, and it’s not worth leaving a post up that can bring someone to a very low state.

      Concerning self esteem? You must of not read the rest of the site – all of talked about was my own lack of self-esteem in my journey. I have no shame at all in stating that I had low self-esteem, it was at an all time low during the affair, I have at least 10 posts about it, compared to this one, so not understanding your viewpoint on that. Never claimed to be self-righteous either. I am just helping women by sharing my story. You sure can make a site, I encourage you to do so, if it helps another woman in any way, then it will be worth your time!!

  59. Jewels,
    I just wanted to tell other wives that if you choose to stay with your husbands it won’t be easy but it will be worth it. I decided to stay with my husband who cheated and am now finally discovering a man who wasnt there when he cheated. The person who cheated was a scared little boy who was running away from the responsibility of a new child, nothing more. The person with whom he cheated with was inconsequential as it could have been anyone. We have been working on how to discover the people we married in the beginning and have more open communication. I have invested my entire adult life with this man, I am not going to give up everything to another woman who didn’t earn the right to be his wife. I did and I will protect it with everything I have. Thare is love and happiness after an affair, you just have to know how to discover it.

  60. JackieO, I am glad you have found it in yourself to forgive your husband. I tried and I couldn’t. I really wish I could, but everytime I look at him I see the child he created and to be honest, I feel disgusted.
    Each time I am told he didn’t plan to get her pregnant, cuts like a knife, because while he didn’t plan to get he pregnant, he didn’t plan to not get her pregnant either!
    If he had protected himself, one of two things would have happened, the affair would have ended and I would never have known the truth, because if she had told me she had been having an affair with him, he would have denied it, and I would never have believed her, or the affair would have continued they would have become blasé about it and I would have discovered through others.
    I think with him it could possibly have been anyone, but I still don’t understand why!

    1. Hello Caz,
      I couldn’t imagine how difficult it would be to know of another child outside the marriage and try to restore the marriage at the same time. Unfortunatley many men do not use condoms when cheating, which is so frustrating!!

      I believe everyone’s journey is their own, and there is a reason that you left that is very positive just like there is a reason that JackieO stayed that is very positive, and our journey is finding out the positive in the storm. I know you want to know why so bad, but the key is to focus on the what’s next versus the why (especially if you are leaving the marriage). And I can’t remember if I said this, but like you stated, I lost a bit financially through leaving as well, but I am telling you Caz the way I feel now it was worth it, I have me back and you will get Caz back as well. Take Care!

  61. Caz,
    I have felt total disgust for my husband after the affair, why on earth would he choose to be with someone like her. I had terrible self image and my self esteem went out the door. It has taken many years of denial and passive aggresisve behavior to understand what happened in our marriage. I am way stronger now and fijally see myself for who I am – a strong, beautiful, intelligent woman who had serious problems in her marriage. I have not forgiven my husband his transgressions, just trying to understand the why’s.

    My husband has become a man with whom I want to be with, that wasn’t the case 5 years ago. We have gone through 2.5 years of marriage counseling and I have to say it was the hardest thing I have ever done. I wanted to put blame all on my husband but I realized I had checked out of the marriage long before he had his affair. I am dealing with issues that were present in my life long before I met my husband and learning that those issues have defined who I was was a huge step in connecting with my husband. Both my husband and I have done a lot of introspection and are really starting to respect and love each other more than we ever have before.

    I don’t know if we would still be together if he had fathered a child with the woman he had an affair with, probably not. I would have left and not had contact with my husband. He would have lost out on an incredible child that we conceived. He knows that now and is grateful I stayed with him.

  62. JackieO and Caz, thank you for these posts as right now I am choosing to stay with my husband and we are only beginning the hard work. He finally began individual therapy, I am working on getting myself back into therapy and then we will do couples therapy with his IC who uses the Imago Relationship approach. I have heard nothing but positive about this type of couples therapy. We have been married 24 1/2 years, together 27 years and we both checked out of our marriage, especially my husband. I tried to reach him but now to learn he was in an affair, that explained a lot. He checked out of our boys lives too and we have a lot of healing and work, we are only5 1/2 months since he confessed.

    So today my mother gave me another approach, she said right now I am circling my husband and I need to do more outside our home and even if I have to pretend to be enjoying it, to do it! That way I can be happy to be home with my husband and we can begin this journey. I am still not 100% about staying with my husband, but right now we are living in the same home, we talk, we are each getting therapy and we have our family for support and we have our 3 boys which mean the world to both of us. We are intimate and one day these walls will be down, I can feel it in my gut. I have to take it one day at a time and enjoy each moment. We have tried working through this ourselves and we are unable to do it, so we have to commit to the therapy and the hard work.

    1. Hello Jules,

      I think you are on the right track. I think your mom is onto something with her advice – one extremely important lesson I learned from this experience is that I should of never put my husband as my 100% focus point in my life. Just because you are married does not mean your entire life has to be centered around your husband. No matter if you stay or leave, you have to carve out that time for you. It is vital to the marriage so that you do not put so much pressure on your husband, and it is vital to your well-being because you put yourself as a priority. I focused so hard when we had problems in the marriage, I literally stopped doing everything I liked because I thought if I could just fix the marriage, everything would be ok. Well, once I found out he cheated, I realized I gave up everything I liked to ‘save the marriage’. And even though it was my choice to focus on the marriage in such a manner (thinking I am helping the situation), over time, I started to resent him even though I made the choice on my own.

      Concerning your husband going back and forth, I am glad you are doing therapy. This should come out and be a important discussion as your start couples therapy. He needs to be committed. If not, what typically happens is you as the wife try to overcompensate for his lack of commitment and you get stressed and worn out, and I don’t want that for you. Recovering from infidelity in a marriage is already very difficult, so he really needs all of his attention directed toward the marriage. Now if the OW is persistent and knows how to get him, maybe you and your husband (or therapists) can discuss with him ways to cut her out. So if she texts him again, tell him to give you the phone and you respond, or change his phone number, etc. Over time she will not respond to no response, but if he keeps giving her even the slightest sign, she will take it. But most importantly Jules, the therapist should make it a priority to talk about if he is 100% committed to working on the marriage, and why he is waffling – he has to get to the bottom of those temptations if there is a chance of the marriage surviving. But overall it seems like you both are going in the right direction, both going to individual therapy and joint – love it!

  63. To all the wives who have had to suffer through their husbands affairs here are some incredible books that have helped me get through to the other side.

    The Language of Letting Go By Melody Beattie, this book is so comforting and gentle it makes you believe in yourself again. I highly recommend this.
    Another book is How Can I Forgive You, by Janis Spring. In this book it talks about the different levels of forgiveness…Cheap Forgiveness which is given without the person who hurt you doing any work to earn your forgivness. No Forgiveness no explanation there. Acceptance which is where you accept what happened to you and deal with all the emotions that have been shoved down deep into your psyche. And finally forgiveness only after the person who has hurt you has truly done work to earn your forgivenss.

    I love both authors.

  64. Jules,
    Only you will know if it is the right decision to stay or not to stay, but at least you are working on healing yourself. When our husbands had affairs they crushed us in the process and we have to prove to ourselves that we are the incredible women that our husbands saw in us to begin with. They married us and we have to rememer that fact. I know that you can heal yourself and find happiness again it’s just going to take a lot of time and tears. Find your strength from within…you can do it.

  65. Thank you JackieO, your words are very comforting and I am ordering both books on Amazon right now.

    My husband wants to be here with me but then every couple of weeks starts waffling again, then I hear we are not connecting, I am not sure where my heart and love it,etc…. This is always after she has made contact again via a mutual gym friend. This is when I question is this worth it? I have offered him an out of our marriage and he does not want it, he still wears his wedding ring. I know right now he is a very broken man and as my mother (who loves her son in law very much) keeps reminding me, D —– had some severe issues that are his, not yours. So right now promise me you will work on you, do fun things for you and not let his issues become yours. It is so hard after being married for so long.

    I welcome any advice, we did separate for a month and he asked to move home to work on us. But he dragged his feet, so typical for him, on getting into therapy. So this journey is really just beginning for us.

    I am finding my strength, I have days when I am not longer crying and even days when I don’t think about it.

    My concern is if I can continue to do this if the man I am married too is on the fence. They are not seeing each other or talking, it is those messages that mess him up. This OW is quite devious and has quite a hold on him emotionally.

    1. JackieO,
      Thanks for your words of encouragement for women on the site, especially around you and your husband staying together. I have total faith that a marriage can survive infidelity if both parties are dedicated and vested. It’s interesting you say that you are discovered the wonderful man that your husband is through this process. I also know someone who overcame infedelity in married as well and said the same thing, it’s like through all of the hard work and effort, they discovered each other again. And if you have put 2.5 years of counseling in your marriage, you deserve happiness. On the main page of the site I have a new section for women to post positive recovery stories, my hope is that there will be stories of women who leave and stories of women who stay. And thanks for the book recommendations, I love reading and I am so backlogged, but if I get a chance to read them, I will let you know!!

  66. To all the wives of husbands who cheated on them stand firm in the knowledge you did nothing wrong!!! You are incredible, beautiful, intelligent and last but not least sexy women go out and have a wonderful life.

  67. Marriage is not simply two people making vows to each other, although that is the heart of it. It is also a warning to the rest of society that those two people are no longer available to anyone else. Why else would we wear wedding bands?

    Of course it’s the husband’s/fiance’s/boyfriend’s fault. We never forget that. We’re told that if we want to give our relationship a shot, we must try to forgive them, and that means NOT throwing it in their faces at all times (though they sure as hell know we’re devastated). Do you know how hard that is? It does however mean talking about it with them, and working with them on it, and in many cases, that’s a very private thing between husband and wife. Compromising a wife’s privacy with her husband is part of what causes the affair to happen in the first place. He is sharing things with the other woman that he should only be sharing with his wife. This kind of pain is gut-wrenching, and since he keeps it secret, the wife has no say in it. So naturally, when we try to work it out, it means reestablishing privacy and keeping OUT the other woman.

    Guess what? If the other woman knows he’s in a committed relationship and still pursues him …it’s her fault, too. It’s called self control and being responsible, and it’s something both of them lack. Especially if the man has children at home. Make any excuse, “he would have found someone else to cheat with”, but guess what …at the end of the day, YOU enabled him. Try looking into the face of one of those kids and telling them that you didn’t respect his or her parents’ vows to each other. That you didn’t believe in their family, and that you spat on it. The other woman from my childhood didn’t say that, but she did say I (the child) was in the way of my parents’ lives. I still detest her for what she did, knowing how much I loved my family (my family didn’t survive what happened, and she didn’t care). You know what they say …there would be less cheating among men if there were more sisterhood among women.

    Self control is really not that hard. More than once in my life, married men have made advances at me, and EVERY SINGLE TIME I have turned them down and walked away. Guess why? Out of respect for their wives (and children). Out of respect for women I have never even met. Imagine, what it must feel like, for your true love to be unfaithful to you, and then to find out that the person he cheated with didn’t care she was helping him hurt you. Once you imagine someone else feeling that pain, all you have to do is say no. It’s that easy. Once I realized what those stupid men were trying to do, I felt contempt for them. Who finds it endearing that a man wants to betray his wife? I think that women are taught to hate each other just on principle; it’s a competition thing. If we teach ourselves to love women on principle, then we won’t let ourselves be tools for these men to cheat on their partners.

    It’s very easy. Train yourself that that sort of behavior makes you sick, and it will be easy not to ever let it go that far.

  68. For all the wives who have been cheated on by their husbands you are way stronger than the other women. Hold your head high and tell the world that you are a fighter and will deal with life head on, don’t be a victim. You are strong women, let the world know that!!

  69. I have been reading this this thread with great interest and finally feel compelled to share. I was cheated on by my husband 6 years ago. When I found out, I was devastated, as we all are. I had 3 children, all under the age of 12, and couldn’t believe their father would do something like this to us. I had never thought he would cheat on me. The worst part was, even though he begged me not to leave him, he continued the affair behind my back for many months. Each time I finally was able to regain trust in him, I would start to see the signs again. And each time I confronted him, he would beg me not to leave him, saying his mistress meant nothing to him and WE were his life. I wanted to believe him, and so I gave him chance after chance after chance. I knew the other woman was someone he worked with, and I knew that she did not care about me or my children or the pain she was inflicting on us. She didn’t care about the fact that she was helping to destroy my marriage. And though I tried to tell myself that it takes a strong woman to stand by her man and fight for her marriage, I had to finally face the fact that it was fear that was holding me back from leaving, not strength. I was afraid of raising 3 children on my own, afraid of being alone, afraid that if I left, he would go to her and she would win. Finally after 4 years of being lied to and betrayed repeatedly, I got the courage to leave this man who had betrayed me, when he of all people should have been the one to love me and honor me above all else.
    When it comes right down to it, yes, the other woman is an unscrupulous homewrecker, but why are we surprised that she doesn’t care about our feelings, and why do we demand that she should? Our own husbands dont even care about us enough not to cheat, why should some woman who doesnt even know us care? Blaming the other woman doesnt change the fact that once a man makes up his mind to cheat, he will cheat no matter what, and there is nothing in the world a wife can do to stop it. If he can’t find a woman willing to be a mistress, he will hire prostitutes and escorts if that’s what it takes to get the sex he’s looking for. When I stopped being angry at her, and placed full responsibility on my husband (where it belongs, much as we hate to admit it), that was when I finally found the courage to do better for myself and leave.
    When it came right down to it, I had to face the fact that the man I married was the one responsible. Most likely he lied to the other woman, made her promises, oftentimes they tell these women they aren’t even married. To blame the other woman for our husbands flagrant disregard of the most important vows one can make is misplaced blame, and worst of all, sends the message to them that in the end it’s okay for them to cheat, because we will always take them back. Every time I forgave my husband, he would only stop seeing the girl until I let my guard down, then he would be right back with her again. It leads me to believe that despite what they say about it being “just sex,” if that were true they would hire prostitutes, at least those women won’t try to steal your husband from you. When a man repeatedly goes back to the same woman, you have to realize that he may actually have true feelings for her, even though he denies it. Of course he is going to deny it. That is the nature of the cheater, to lie, lie, lie.
    Wake up, ladies, and have some respect for yourselves and your bodies. It takes strength to walk away, but it is well worth it in the end. As women we continue to give of ourselves to someone who didn’t give a damn about us enough to stay faithful, and we look for excuses to justify it because the truth hurts too much. A husband who cheats has no regard for the safety of his wife. They have unprotected sex and potentially bring us diseases, and make babies that aren’t our responsibility (yet now in the case of that poor women, she is going to suffer a change in her financial situation as her husband is legally obligated to provide for the other woman’s child) as we stay faithful and loyal every day of our marriage, to men who dont deserve it. Put yourself first. Realize you deserve to be with someone who has the love and self-control to not cheat on you. Yes it would be great if all women banded together and never allowed themselves to go near a married man, but it would be great if there was no war and no bullies and no bad weather and no lost jobs and no homelessness…in other words, shit happens. You cant get rid of all the selfish women out there who dont care that a man is married, any more than you can get rid of all the child molesters and rapists and murderers in the world. All you can do is hope that the man you married loves you enough to respect the vows you took on your wedding day for the rest of his life. A married man is a grown adult with committments and responsibilities. If he doesnt love and respect you enough to stay faithful to you, regardless of whether other women make themselves available, then he doesnt deserve you. If he has cheated on you once, he WILL cheat on you again. It takes more strength to leave than it takes to stay, but it in the end, when you can look back on what you accomplished on your own, and know that you made it, you will have more self respect than you ever could staying with a man who lies and cheats and doesnt care about you. We deserve better!!! We CAN do better!!!

    1. Hello Eva,

      Thanks for sharing your story, you make some good points and most importantly, I am glad you got out of a bad situation of constantly being disrespected. Just as you stated that it took time for you to realize the entire situation for what it is, break through all of the fear you stated, and leave – it takes time for other women as well. Just as anything in life, fear of the unknown is so powerful, it will cause you to stay in situations where you know it’s not good for you. I do believe that not all cheaters are the same. Some are just liars and want to have sex with many women – period. They cheat over and over and don’t care about who they hurt.
      Some are searching for some type of validation, and thought they could get it in another woman. I think my husband was this way, I could give him that warm fuzzy like I use to and he couldn’t take it because of his lack of self-esteem. But unfortunately, it took too long for him to realize he was in a fantasy world, and I could only take so much of being disrespected, so I left. Do I think he is going to go on and cheat on every woman he marries, no. If he works through his issues and gets enough confidence within himself to know he doesn’t need to be validated, then he will be fine. Then there are the men that have a one night stand, tell there wives because they can’t live with the shame. They are literally distraught. I do think with some good therapy this type of situation can be worked out.

      Lastly, I know how hard it is to leave with 3 young kids (I only had 2 and was terrified of raising them on my own), so many women need to hear that you can leave with kids and be ok.

  70. Eva,
    You are absolutely right, the ultimate fault falls on the husband who chose to step out of the marriage. I have been going through the acceptance of my husbands affair and realized it had nothing to do with either me or the other woman. It could have been anyone, my husband was on the hunt and wanted to escape from the reality of home. He didn’t want the responsibilty of being a husband or a father and found a willing partner in the girl he chose.

    I do want to say that the girl he chose was extremely callous in that I had to have a Cesarean and looked like death warmed over and she came to the hospital to visit me and my baby. My husband was there and she stood right next to him smiling at him in front of me. At the time I didn’t know they were having an affair. So yes I do have to put all the blame on my husband for allowing this girl into our marriage, but she took it to the next level all on her own. She wanted my life and was willing to do anything to get it, she didn’t.

    It took a very long time to realize that I had the power to change my life and I did. I now have a husband who knows that I am no longer a woman who is afraid to live her life the way she wants and deserves. We have worked very hard to look at our marriage and decide whether or not it was worth saving and it is.

  71. Just like other wives on this site, my husband cheated on me. What I haven’t read is that my husband was (& I am very happy to say) is again my best friend, lover and companion. When we had been together more than 25 years, large cracks appeared in our relationship. My husband became drunkenly abusive and very angry at home. I had put this down to stress as his company had become very successful and he had a lot of staff & clients he was responsible for. I tried to be miss perfect & take all the home responsibilities from him, being mum & dad. Always looking good, well dressed & slim, interested in his work. BAD MOVE. This only gave him “permission” to be more absent from family life. What I have since found out was that he was having an affair with a woman 20 years his junior who was in his employment. This woman was not only married but had 3 boys, all of them resulting from accidental pregnancies. It was also well known that she had sexual relations with the last CEO of the company as well as men she had been doing business with. In the 3 years of her affair with my husband, she managed to double her wage and be promoted to manager. In the 3 years of their affair, our family life was all but destroyed. I watched as my husband fall apart, everything he had stood for disintergrated. When he had sober moments, he would tell me how trapped he was but I thought he was referring to his work load. I also watched as our son nearly destroyed his own life with drugs & our daughter loose any confidence in men. The 3 years since my husband was caught by the other husband has been the most painful, emotional rollercoaster ride. It was not only being cheated on, the very reason I worked so hard in our family was because I thought we were a partnership, he at the office, me running the family. I felt I had been robbed of who I was. I felt that choices about my life and that of my family had been made for me. Another blow was when I found out through a routine pap smear that I had contract an STD. Then we found out that this woman had not been on contraceptives while with my husband either. My husband & I have faced this together in the most raw & painful way. He is embarassed & humiliated by his behaviour. He has taken early retirement from the company that he set up as this woman will not resign, even though she admits she was the one who did the pursuing. It has taken me these last 3 years to work through this & start to feel good about my self only to be diagnosed with an auto immune desease which had made all my hair fall out (caused by stress). I have always wanted to confront her with just how much damage she has caused. Why have I been the one to suffer SO much when I have been the decent, respectful person, the caring mother & wife. Life is unfair, but I am SO glad I decided to stay & give my husband a second chance. I have the man I married back again, only wiser, kinder & more considerate. But it has been so hard.

    1. Thanks Jenny for sharing your story. It seems like you have been through so much the last three years, but it finally seems like the hard work of you and your husband has paid off and that you are glad you stayed. I think him taking an early retirement caused both of you to spend more time together and understand the situation. Sleeping with someone at work is not a good formula. When that happens, the OW has a lot of power. I am sorry to hear that you have an autoimmune disease, interesting that you put stress as the cause. I hope that you and your husband are in a good place so that you can take time and focus on de-stressing, that seems to be critical for you right now. I wish you the best!

  72. Jenny , I stayed too after 4 1/2 yrs of affairs and 24 yrs of marriage. We should applaud ourselves for being the strong ones! Yes it’s been hard and many times I wished I did divorce him. My husband too is and Alcoholic and is in AA for the first time in 5yrs. I too know the abuse you have endeared, the shame you felt as you thought you were to blame. It was them that made the choice to cheat not us!
    My life was perfect too so I thought, but life had other ideas for me. I have found out alot about myself through it all and in the end have become stronger than I thought I ever could be. Now I am the back bone to this family and NO ONE can take that from me. We will be fine in the end throgh hard work from us and our spouses. The memories will haunt us now and then but the pain gets a little weaker each time I remember. AA is a great program for men not for just alcohol but for other addictions as well but only if they are willing to better themselves. My husband too is a better man and is so remorseful. but that’s because AA has brought it to his attention! Keep the faith that not all marriages end in divorce.

  73. Its true my husband’s other woman was a single never married mother who lived with her mother because she couldn’t afford to live on her own. She was older and did not have a degree. Now she is going back to school to earn a degree in teaching, my profession. I understand my husband was most at fault for his infedelity but the other woman is also at fault. She knew he was married and did not stop. Supposedly this was done to her at some point by someone else. I don’t believe it because if she knew the pain it caused why would she do it to someone else? My husband and her lived in a fantasy world and were very selfish. As a woman I could never do that to anyone else, even if I don’t know her.Guess I was raised with values and compassion. After finding out my brother in law called to tell her off. She would text him now and then and at some point asked him if he was married and if he wanted to be friends and “hand out”. How patheic! She could not accept No for an answer . She was determined to be part of my husbands life one way or another even after he dumped her in front of me. She even threatened suicide! In the end I still can’t comprehend what would make a woman be someone’s sloppy seconds. I figure it must be a lack of morals, self esteem and desperation. My husband has since ended the affair went through hell and back and we renewed our marriage vows.

  74. Hi. Warning I’m an unmarried man. Could I join?

    I want to be a good man for my future wife so I’m reading about marriage problems and the like. Your view about infidelity helps me understand women and myself more. For now I’m in a journey to make myself a strong man before I find my mate.

    As for this topic. I try to make a contribution. I think the six reasons does not told the story. I’m a man and I never think like that when I’m with a woman. I do know that I feel attracted to women, I think all men are like that. My attraction doesn’t seem to care if the woman is not that handsome. I don’t know, I think as long if its just a young woman I’m attracted, I think its instinct. I don’t act on this attraction though. Its not that I’m not interested, I am very much, but I don’t like to enter a relationship yet. If a woman put her charms on me, I guard myself or even dissuade her and leave.

    I think your cheating husbands are similar. They are attracted to the woman but unlike me they act on their desire. Those reasons came later.

    I know attention from another woman can be a confidence booster from me, making me feel more manly. There are also those women that are fun to be with and I would like to know them better. There are even women that make sexual advances at me. I know they are okay because I’m unmarried but they are not okay for me. I’m feel I’m not strong for a relationship yet and I want one that is serious not flings.

    I think your husband attracted with these women. They might have made the move themselves or the women throw themselves at him. No matter, they act on their desire not caring about their wife. That how people feel about ‘sin’ like those delicious cakes when in a diet. You know its wrong but it feel good. And when you do it you will make excuses to yourself and justify your behavior.

    That is how I feel much about porn. I watch them near excessive. I know its wrong but still I watch them reasoning that I will not watch anymore. But still I watched. I have stopped watching now. I stop justifying myself. I just know its wrong, so no I wont watch, and there I didn’t watch. The act of watching porn is wrong there is no justifying it.

    I believe your husbands are like that. They do it even though they know its wrong. Maybe there are truly problems in marriage but I know desire come first then they make reasons why they should act on their desires and if they believe they have good enough reasons, act on it. Maybe this reasoning makes some of your husbands feel not guilty or blame their wife.

    Now when I’m have desires to do things that are not right, I don’t go to that road of justification. The wrong deed could not be justified, its wrong. When I encounter one I tell myself its wrong and stop. Its wrong final, so don’t do it. And if that includes a horny woman that have their hormones speak to them instead of their, I leave or even use force if necessary.

    I believe every man into a relationship should be reading your comments and discussions. That would help them understand their wife and themselves. I also believe that in marriage, honesty is required. I believe when temptation comes I would not hide it from my wife. I will tell her about it. I only hope my future wife would be helpful enough to help me go through it.

    1. Hello Ralmon,

      Yes I do think you can learn a great deal from reading our stories on the site. I hope it strongly encourages you to never cheat on your wife, and like you said, if you have those temptations, tell her about it, being honest will save your future marriage. I know my article might not tell the full story, but it’s not my job to do so, the purpose here is to help women sort out the pain of experiencing their husband cheat, that’s it! Take care!

  75. Ralman, I don’t mind if you are joining in our chats but just keep in mind we all have been hurt by men! Considering you are not married and as far as I can see not in a relationship you don’t have much to offer us. We all have been lied too, humilated and victimized by a cheating spouse or boyfriend some us more than once by the same person. If you can handle it, what we really think and how we do bash the men sometimes then fine. But please do not say because your a man you don’t think like that or wouldn’t do stuff like that. These men have hurt us over and over again! I just voicing my opinon here and the other ladies need to voice theirs too. So be prepared for some real pain that we all seem to share but you.

  76. I understand that it is NEVER all one person’s fault. I blamed the woman because in my mind anyway, everything was fine till SHE came along. But this wasn’t really true. My husband wasn’t happy and if it hadn’t been her, someone else would have come along. But I don’t LOVE her so if I can blame HER, I can convince myself that my husband loves me and there is no problem in our marriage other than she seduced him- something new and exciting; I see that now and where I think she has no self respect or integrity and my age old question-How can 2 cheaters who are lying to the wife, trust EACH OTHER?-SHE didn’t ever stand before God or man and make a committment to me, HE DID. So why am I blaming her? Because she lied about being on birth control and deliberately set him up knowing men are stupid and BEST case scenaruio, he chooses his CHILD over his wife and SHE WINS! (If inheiriting a cheating, lying, lazy emotional vampire who sits on your couch and does nothing but eat all your food and make a mess is winning) Worst case scenario, he chooses to stay with his wife and you sue him for child support and have guaranteed income for 18 years and never have to work again. This is more widespread than anyone realizes and the child support system needs to be overhauled where the mother NEVER sees that money. It should go directly to the child or to a card that can only be used for children’s items.

  77. LisaP:

    Sorry for hurting you. I think I’m not thinking while typing it.

    I know I could do things like that, everyone can, so I’m taking precautions. I’m reading your accounts so I could understand how women feel in these situations make my resolve against cheating stronger. I’m avoiding alcohol (many one-night-stands happens in drunk stupor). I’m stopping my porn use (women are hurt by their husbands porn use). I’m readying myself for a relationship.

    Now I’m trying to understand myself. There are lots of bad things about myself but I know that I must confront them, ignoring them will only compound the problem.

    I know women here are hurt and I’m angry at all these cheating men and women. I actually like to come up to them and punch some sense to them or maybe make their life miserable.


    what the… really? Its a serious loophole. Is there anyway we could tell the government about it so they can make changes?

    And where is your husband now? How did he do? He should take responsibility to this. Its his actions that cause this so he should be the one carrying the burden. Is he doing anything at all?

  78. Regarding Emotional Triggers from the Affair, Well today a trigger hit me that has hit me in the past and I couldn’t brush it off anymore. I had to speak up today! My husband was just being happy and making up Christmas songs with words and out came a word he used for his OW. I had to put my foot down and ask him to stop sing that song and using that word. He said he was sorry and I think a little caught off guard. Don’t these men know that we remember every little email, nickname, or flitation email they wrote or said to these OW. They are embedded in our brains! He is healing himself just fine trying to forget the past but I still remember everything and will never forget! That is what makes men and women different, we may forgive but can not forget!

    1. Hello LisaP,

      I bet your husband was caught off guard, I can imagine him all happy and singing and you cutting off the music and shocking him a little bit lol. That’s awesome that he apologized, I bet he will think twice about it next time and be more mindful. And I think that men think that just because you don’t bring it up that everything is perfect now but it’s not usually the case. I am not even with my husband anymore and I still get a little pit in my stomach with certain triggers that I see or hear.

      Also thanks so much for helping so many women on the site, it’s truly appreciated!!

  79. #4 Hit my husband on the head. (They need to feel that they ‘still got it) He said he just wanted to see what would happen so he started surfing dating sites. We live in Europe so there are allot of pretty Russian gals out there looking for a way out. He met with her while I was out for work, now he’s still chatting with her. He says he loves his home and life here. He says what he’s doing is not logical but he can’t stop. I’m 55, he’s 49, she’s 29. How do I survive? I can’t compete with 29. I’m slim and fairly good looking but … not 29. It’s been out in the open for 10 days. Do I have to live with this for months or years for him to come back to me? For every smile that goes to her – that’s one less to me. I loved our life together also – three weeks ago… How am I to survive?

    1. Hello Ann,

      #4 is a popular one because when men (or women) get older, they feel insecure, and sometimes men think that a younger person can give him that security of ‘I still got it’. I know it’s tough to hear when he says he can not stop, know that it is very common. And he is not doing this to hurt you, he is doing this because he is starving for that feeling that he has still got it. And I will tell you from personal experience, when they tell you that they can’t let go, believe them. Unfortunately his self-esteem is trapped and wrapped around this fantasy of the other women, and you can not control his actions, it will cause you unnecessary stress. These type of relationships are typically temporary and do not last.

      Is he still seeing her? I think he is from your writing but I can not tell. You do not have to live with this for years to come. It is still very fresh, so you still have some more conversations to sort out before you think about what you will do. You do not have to decide anything now. I personally would not want you to pour your heart into saving the marriage because your husband is not in it right now. Instead, I would put that energy towards yourself, I am sure you might have the same insecurities that your husband had, so how can you focus inward so that you can decide what you want to do? Ask yourself what you want out of the next phase of your life? What do you want from your husband? What you do want to experience? Once you answer those questions and have a few more conversations with your husband, I hope you will have a some more clarity. I know you are going through alot, especially since you were so happy in love 3 weeks ago.

  80. The hurting sister

    I’m in desperate need of some advice. My sister has been having marital problems for 6 months. She is 8 months pregnant with her and her husbands 6th child. She called his work which just fired him 2 weeks ago and found out today that he is having an affair (3 people said they could tell her that for a fact). She confronted him with it today and he is half denying it saying he “didn’t go all the way”. Not sure exactly what that means. The difficulty I have is that he is blaming her for everything! I just don’t know how he can do this when she has done nothing but try to hold their marriage together. And what a jerk not to understand she is 8 month pregnant and taking care of 5 other children 12 and under! Anyway, I am not sure how to help her. She is of course feeling like all the blame is on her and doesn’t know what to do. He is also pulling the “shes an unfit mother” game on her to hurt her even more. (for the record, she is an AWESOME mother! She has been so strong through all of this and each one of the kids would stick up for her.) He doesn’t want the kids but would just like them available for his pleasure on the days he is guilted in to being a father. What help or advice can I give her? My heart it aching. And her’s is broken.

  81. My husband of 19 years cheated on me with his ex-girlfriend from 26 years ago and they have a 28 yr. old daughter together.She (the OW) & my husband have done nothing but talk bad about me since November,2011 including putting posts of “our” intimate sexual details on Facebook.Her recent post was “I’ve got your husband bitch & you got served divorce papers…She posted this along with a picture of herself wearing a knecklace he got me a few years ago.I must also mention that our 11 yr. old daughter & 9 yr. old son were there when the pics were taken. Please tell me how I can ignore this along with everything else and not want to seek REVENGE..???

    1. The hurting sister/Holly

      The hurting sister – you are such a great sister for reaching out. Your husband’s sister is being just mean. Are you local? If so, the best thing you can do for her is to be there. Make sure she gets a break from the kids to breathe. My sister lives far away, I would of done anything to have my mom or sister take care of the kids for a day or even a couple of hours so I can get a break. 8 months, she is probably tired. Tell her to try to take care of herself for the baby. I had to force myself to eat because I had no appetite. Ask if she needs help she will appreciate it. Also tell her she does not have to be supermom, I know she is a great mom, and i know he says stuff to get under her skin, so if she is such a bad mom, tell her do not break her neck to do for him and make sure things are perfect for him, he should be in the doghouse, she is pregnant and taking care of the kids, he should be helping with Laundry etc. and since she is so horrible, maybe he needs to do it. I am venting a little bit here but you get my point, tell her she does not have to prove anything to him because he is not appreciative enough to deserve it.

      Lastly, she may decide to stay with him, do not make her feel bad if she does, I know you are her sister and you want her to be happy, but if she says and you are there for her that would be great. You do not have to accept her decision, but some family members make one feel bad for staying, it’s such an emotional time, the last thing that is needed is ridicule from family. I hope this helps!

      Holly – The simple answer is that revenge – she is not worthy of the time and effort it would take to seek revenge. Do you know how silly and immature she looks posting something like that on facebook? Let her look silly and you take the high road because you have better things to do with your life. What does your husband say to all of this? He is participating? Do you know if you are going to stay or leave the marriage?

  82. Yes my husband is playing a BIG role in their shenanigans the only thing is ,is he’s having her do all the talking because of the 3 year PFA I have against him.
    As far as staying or leaving the marriage…I HAVE NO INTENTIONS ON EVER GOING BACK TO HIM!!!I could never forgive or forget how he’s treated our children & myself these past few months.I thank you for your advice it means a lot.

  83. Well I am not married and I have great empathy towards all of you I stumbled on this page looking for information about relationships but I think my story will fit right in here. I have a 4month year old for a guy i was dating for over a year. From we met he never told me he was married. I met him through his close relative a (aunt). I met his kids and other relatives and from the day we met we we inseparable. Now i found out he was married one night he was asleep and his phone kept ringing I was pregnant and I needed my rest i encouraged him to answer but he didnt so i did. After finding out about the wife, a month went by and I guess he forgot his email open when he went to visit the wife n kids that she saw all of our emails back and forth she emailed me and told me who she was and that she was having a baby on the way and that i needed to know that i’m messing with a married man. At the end of the it all we met in person because I informed her that I too am pregnant. On my way to met her he’s calling my phone he honey where are you I love and miss you hows my lil man are we doing anything later? I told him let me call you back little did he know i was on my way to meet his allege wife with my big belly. We met exchange words and compared stories. I had my son 2months before her child was born. She explained they weren’t together and that she has him on child support but that’s when I got confused as to why would you send me that email then? She also told me that i’m not the first female her husband cheat on her with the first girl he moved in with and thats when she left and placed him child support this happened a year into their marriage they have been married for 4yrs and she has had a few run ins with females but they always seem on and off. If i knew all of this before i got with him i would of ran farrr away. But I LOVE my son he means the world to me…… I was more hurt his aunt my friend never told me any of this. But nonetheless they were separated and reconciled but at the same time we both have a baby by him and since they have reconciled he has seen his son once for the year. I do not want to be with him because i hate liars and I dont do married men. I just need him to be a father NOT a daddy to his child. Some of these men aren’t worth shit and I have a lot going for myself but he had the nerve to tell me he just always wanted to have me in his life thats why he didnt encourage me to abort so frigging selfish. This is my first child and I am a full time student and working two jobs to raise my child alone. But I feel like every child deserves to have an active father. Like I said I am saddened by what you guys go through because some guys are pathetic and aint worth shit. I pray he finds God the way he’s deceiving people.

    1. Holly – I am glad you are leaving and not looking back 🙂

      Kat – Sucks. He lied and had an entire family, not the first time I have heard this type of story unfortunately. As wives it is possible not to know for years, so I am sure it is possible for you not to know as well. It’s border line mulch-personality for them to literally live two lives acting like the other one doesn’t exist, it is sick.

      I agree with you, he is the father and he needs to do the responsible thing and be one. I am not sure where you live but I know in the USA if you are the father of a child, there are some responsibilities that go with that. I am not trying to give you legal advice, but I would look up lawyers in your area that deal with this type of issue because even though you and him are no longer, he brought a child into this world – period. And he needs to step up. As women we always have to be the default when it comes to children, it’s so not fair.

      I hope things work out in that he starts to take more responsibility for the child he created with you.

      And his aunt knew the whole time and didn’t tell you (she introduced you?)…I wonder what’s her excuse for playing these games? She should be helping to raise your son as well, if it wasn’t for her….just joking 🙂

  84. WishICouldBeNormal

    I just read past post on this link and came across “The Other Woman”. I am really angry at this point so what follow will be a complete rant: don’t say I didn’t warn you.

    @The Other Woman- You may be successful at you profession but you are a failure as a human being! You asked the question about who has the right to say anything about you or any other “other woman” – answer- I AND EVERY OTHER WIFE WHO HAS BE DESTROYED BY SOMEONE LIKE YOU!!! You better believe that my husband has a boat load of blame in this but I don’t own one drop of it – blame for problems in our marriage, you bet, blame for his affair, no way in hell.
    It’s whoring, self-absorbed women like you who slink themselves into the lives of weak men. You see your opportunity and you take it, not once considering what you could be doing to his wife ,children, and anyone else who cares about him.
    Then you have the NERVE to run down your MM wife by talking about her lesser education and her lack of social skills. Let me clue you in you home wrecking piece of garbage, SHE HAS MORE CLASS IN HER LITTLE FINGER THAN YOU HAVE IN YOUR WHOLE WHORING BODY! I don’t even need to know her to know that.
    The woman who had an affair with my husband was an opportunistic B*$^@. She played on his ego, she moved everything to the next level, if he seemed reluctant she kept pushing until he gave in, she flew 800 miles to make sure it went from talk to physical, she sent him a check list of questions to ask the divorce lawyer, and when he realized what a fool he had been she proceeded to threaten him with compromising pictures she had. No, it’s not his word against hers, I’ve seen it all.
    If you are all that Miss Thing, then why is it that you can’t get yourself a confident single man? I’ll tell you why…if they aren’t needy and weak you can’t measure up. That’s why. Now that I’m done I hope you and all of those like you will “fade into the background” lest you come across a wife who will stomp a mud hole in you.

  85. WishICouldBeNormal

    Jewels- It was not until after my rant that I saw later comments you made to “The Other Woman”. Therefore, if I violated any of your rules or standards I apologize and will not be shocked or offended if you remove before mentioned rant. It did, however, feel good to say it none the less.

  86. As a man I want to emphasize that in my case that both the wife and other woman are irrelevant, the decision is fully mine. My wife is near perfect. She is beautiful, sexual with me, etc. I just cannot bear the thought of having sex with only one woman for the rest of my life. I can’t speak for all men, but for me monogamy is not desirable. I have not fully cheated yet, but will in the right moment with someone who I think is sexually attractive. Then, I will go back home and love my wife, play with my children and live my happy domestic life. Frankly, I could care less if my wife had a BF on the side. No person is that interesting that you would want to spend all your time with them for the rest of your life. I think some of the women on this thread would feel better if they just realized their husbands loved them but had no interest in total monogamy and accepted that. Sexual infidelity doesn’t cancel out all the positive traits of a man – unless you are hell bent on making it so. We live a long time and consequently our marriages are really long – we should all be a bit more open minded. It is possible to care for more than one person at the same time in your adult life in a romantic/sexual way. I don’t believe that all of the cheating men in these stories are that horrible. They are probably some really good guys.

  87. WishICouldBeNormal

    Anormalman- My question for you would be- did you tell your wife this was your attitude about monogamy or did she marry you thinking that the two of you would be each others one and only? If she knew, although I don’t consider it right, you are not cheating on her, she knew. However, if you married her with her thinking you would be faithful to her only and then you decided one woman wasn’t enough for you and you cheat you don’t love your wife. If that is how it is you should tell her and if she isn’t alright with it you should do the right thing and leave the marriage. You can still father your child but being in that relationship if she doesn’t agree with you having other women is hurtful to her and selfish of you.

  88. I’ve been married for almost 29 years, for my 25th wedding anniversary my husband and I always spoke about renewing our vows. When I asked him six months prior he said ” I DON’T WANT TO MARRY YOU AGAIN” I was so devistated!! he started acting different . He goes off to a buisness trip and comes home to tell me the infamous words of a cheater “I am no longer in love with you” no indication of unhappiness or problems prior. We went to counceling and he said there was no infidelity when asked, the councelor believed him and said I was pushing him out the door with my jealousy and accusations…three weeks later whaaa la he gets an email through this phone ..thank you for your stay on the 11th leaving on the 12th …yep he’d been having an affair with someone 13 years younger , married and three kids who pretended to be my friend. I decided to stay and make the marriage work cause he pleaded he would never do this to me again and if he decided he wanted to continue with her he would leave me and not disrespect me or make me look like a fool. Yeah well I was the fool he never stopped !!! he lied in counceling twice a week that he was making the marriage work and i just couldnt get passed it. He was lying to our children and most of all he was lying to me !!! making me look and everyone believe I was crazy!!! 18 mos later the bitch calls me and tells me they never stopped so I didn’t know who to believe so I put spyware on his phone and whaaa laaa phone calls to her were made and when i confronted him he said it was a lie thank god I had the log and emailed the liar the proof!! He asked for another chance and promised he would have nothing to do with her and that he loved me and that they were just friends he wasn’t having sex with her …really? 6 mos later when again i believed him I find out they had hotel stays ..I called him told him to get the fuck out of my house and again he denied it so I emailed him the proof a reciept!!! And yes I am still here trying to make this work but sadly to say I don’t think it is going to !! I feel it’s time to let this loser go and move on!!! there has been to many lies , to much deception and I don’t see any remorse!!..Then the ass has the gull to say this marriage isn’t working because Im not wanting it to , Im not letting go of the past and giving us a chance. My response was …You didn’t let her go after I found out the first time and you never gave us a chance. !!!! This is all your doing our marriage has fallen apart because of your continued selfishness!!! But like always blame me for it not working cause that is the only way you feel like a man!!

  89. wishicouldbenormalUSA-appreciate your rebuttal. You mention that if I believed in Monogamy at the time of my marriage I gave my wife a false impression if I was to change my opinion my monogamy later. People often radically change their views on many things over a lifetime, why would monogamy not be included in that? In fact, most people prior to marriage have not been particularly monogamous so they don’t fully understand what they are committing to. So many marry between 20-30, a time when many of us haven’t formed our values fully. I don’t accept that you are bound to be held to a belief you had at 24 (when I married) for your whole life.

    If I’m honest, the main reason I want to cheat is because my wife and I have differing sex drives. For her sex 4-8 times a month is fine, whereas I could have it at least once a day. Why should I compromise my expectations for sex just for the sake of monogamy? Shouldn’t she be held accountable for not living up to the marriage contract in regards to meeting my sexual needs? I don’t believe that she should – I don’t want to have sex with someone that is only having sex out of obligation. Since she lives her marriage vows imperfectly, let me live mine imperfectly. If a woman is getting along with her man pretty well and she doesn’t want him to cheat, have sex with him as much as possible – guys generally don’t go out looking for hamburgers when they have just gorged on steak at home. The problem is most guys are NOT gorging on steak at home, there just getting the odd nibble of a steak a few times a month. Remember that and you’ll prevent so many problems.

  90. Normalman- I just had to respond to you from a women’s side. I do not believe you are normal but have a high sex drive. I know women that have high sex drives and they say the same thing about their husbands.

    So from a women’s point of view…My husband also had an affair and said to me we did not have enough sex! I reminded him that we have 3 active boys, I worked, I handled 100% of everything to do with our active boys and their sports, schooling, plus handled our home, bills, cleaning and even did most of the yard work with our boys help. He was busy being self employed but also had plenty of time for regular gym workouts and mountain bike rides. I would cry asking him for help and support….. So we did have sex several times a week and if he swept me away on an adults vacation or weekend, well we had sex all day and night and I was very happy and enjoyed it too. So relaxing and no responsibilities. But to him it was still NOT enough…. but yet he found the time to have an affair. But not the time to be here for his family……then he gave me an STD a forever thing. Plus he never took the time to talk to me, his wife now of almost 25 years! I would tell him one day we will have only each other and I could not wait, we could eat naked at the table and just have fun. But oh no, he was so self absorbed he could not put himself in my shoes at all. I know when I turned him down because of complete exhaustion (add a chronic illness to the mix, mine) he was upset. But yet I would always apologize and try to explain what I needed, but he could not and would not hear me.

    So now fast forward, I kicked him out 6 weeks ago and he is confused, not sure what he wants. Well honey, you just might get a notice that you owe your wife 1/2 of everything, including your toys and your business, plus a substantial amount of spousal support for the rest of my life. I can no longer work due to my health so I am entitled to live the same lifestyle. So now instead of thinking of retirement he is going to have to think of how he can make more money and also face the reality of losing his precious Cobra race car he built, those custom mountain bikes and also losing his boys and the respect of all our friends, neighbors and family. Our families are both pretty disgusted with him and his boys have no respect for their father. His boys (who are all young men now) are so angry at him that 2 of the 3 refuse to have anything to do with him and our oldest is getting married in July and has decided his father is NOT welcome at his wedding.

    So really think, an affair is NOT the solution. What it does is create a whole new set of problems. Have you really sat your wife down and really talked, poured your heart and thoughts out? Asked what you can do for her and to help her so she feels good and wants a more active sex life? Have you thought about asking her to attend couples therapy together? I strongly advise you to NOT have an affair first and think later. One thing my husband said was “I am not suicidal but I would be better off dead because of the mess I have created” and “If I had truly known what having an affair would do to my wife and family I would never have done it”.

    So you need to remember a marriage is between 2 people and it takes work, compromises and really listening. I know plenty of happily married couples and believe me, when we girls get together we do talk about our sex lives! There is always one higher sex drive in every couple I know. There are some very good books out there that might help you as a couple too.

    I really hope you will really think especially if you have children.

    Oh and for the record my high sex drive has returned and now I have booted my husband out for his behavior and attitude.

  91. Yes I have children and I do think, which is probably why I haven’t gone all the way. What bugs me is that there is always some excuse, yes ppl are tired and sick, when I understand that I apologize for “asking” when I don’t realize the problems are there. And man do I get sick of asking…………

    Since this is anonymous I also say this: I make 250k a year – but no matter what there is always a new set of reasons (she doesn’t work but takes classes of interest to her part time during the day). I tell her, if your tired, hire a housekeeper, a driver a whatever so you will fix this problem. Can’t be bothered. Doesn’t even LOOK at the bank account (for over six months and counting). SHe would be fine if I hired a housekeeper but won’t take the initiative to do it herself. I can attest through little experiements I have done (and kept to myself) that no amount of relief from sickness, fatigue, boredom or other excuse will change the biological wiring of my wife. She is wired for 4-8 times a month. Reading a book about it will not increase her sexual desire – but it might try to make me accept my lot in life. Is this marraige – a “compromise” which means I don’t get what I want and she does?

    When you describe your husband, I’m not surprised that he cheated. Not because of any shortcoming in you, but because he has all the attributes: a risk taker, sportsman, a little aggressive – all the SAME qualities that made you love him in the first place. I bet he’s pretty good looking too. That’s the problem with men like us, the very things our wives love are the things that cause the problems. I’m worryed for your boys – they may hate him now but with his genes I wonder how they’ll behave when in the same monotonous situation as their father. Don’t feel like this reflects on you – it doesn’t – some men are JUST NOT MONOGAMOUS and the thought of having sex with the same woman for the rest of your life is like dying a slow death. No amount of therapy, church or discussions will ever change this.

  92. Oh yeah, I have sat down loads of times with my wife and talked about this. She says she feels guilty and crappy when we have these discussions and like it’s all her fault. Then because I think I’ve just been manipulated, I say sorry (why?). She tries harder for awhile but I hate it because I can tell it’s contrived and we fall back into the 4 to 8 times a month pattern again. The worst is when I’m away on business trips and rather than look at porn or go to the bar I call her up for some skype time. And even when I have left her alone for a week or more at a time she STILL finds some excuse. I guess this is a little bit of a rant – lol but it’s true. Anyways, I am not claiming to Mr. perfect either – but ppl with problems and fatigue can still shag.

  93. Hi Anormalman — It’s great to hear a man’s perspective on this. Women want to feel desired and loved. Are you giving her the romance/date feeling with it — or are you just complaining about not getting enough. You say she feels crappy after you talk about it — that is saying something. It’s like the nag factor you hear men always complain about — “she wants me to do this, do that” — and then the men just shut down — they have to do the tasks because they want someone to quit nagging — but not because they are excited to do them. This could be what happens to her — and when she feels safe and doing it because she really wants to — you will feel her really wanting you. Have you tried the opposite — go for one month really pulling back? It’s human nature to always want what you can’t have…..so maybe if you pull back alot — she might wonder and also miss it? I’m no expert — but you know what they say about abstinence — oops I mean absence……..making the heart grow fonder……. (although I should be heeding my own advice — I have the stronger drive in my marriage).

  94. My wife is overall a pretty nice person, when I have been gone for a long time (very rarely for a month) she likes the sex for the first day or so but within a week reverts back to the normal schedule. And should that be fixed? Is it a problem? You can’t force someone to want sex more than they do. I’ve done experiments like (privately) tracking the frequency of sex between us when I go on a romantic (poetry, playing guitar, all the things she wishes i would do more of, crank up the listening skills, etc.) streak, a day-to-day(hu hum relationship effort) streak or a jerk (I’m a little moody, etc.) streak. Guess what? predictably, the frequency of sex NEVER changed in each situation, although I’m sure she feels the best during the romantic one. Men and women don’t have “relationships” they have “negotiations”. Married men are on the market for sex because they don’t get enough or they want it with more than one person – this cannot be fixed. Don’t let ppl lie to you and tell you otherwise to make you feel better. Yes some men don’t cheat but we have this blog and the history of the world to tell us that nothing will change. The women on this blog and I need to figure out what we are gonna do to get what we want and trust me our paths are likely in direct opposition (negociations).

  95. I should also state I live in a European country where ppl consider adultery to be, well, not a huge deal. I think this whole: let’s destroy a mans entire life over cheating is very American. Thank god my neighbours could care less who I’m sleeping with. IN fact, women actually admire cheating in the sense that it proves that a man is still desirable to others, not a has been that probably doesn’t have the chance for sex with someone else anyway.

  96. WishICouldBeNormal

    Anormalman- I wonder, do you even listen to yourself? Let me ask another way…if you knew that having sex with someone else would not only cost you your marriage (because it sounds to me like you aren’t going to man up and ask your wife if it’s ok with her) but it will also cause her extreme pain (you did say you love her) then is a piece of tail really worth all of that? If she is so neglectful in the sex department why not tell her straight up that it isn’t enough and that she isn’t willing to at least, say, meet you in the middle, then you will be forced to find someone else and that if you doesn’t want you to do that in the context of being married to her and she isn’t willing to step up then you need to leave the relationship. A relationship is about two people. If she can’t live with you being with someone else and you can’t live with not being with someone else do the right thing and just leave.
    Oh, and that last statement about women admiring cheater, that would only be women who would cheat with one. Let me assure you, it’s not attractive to the rest of us.

  97. ANormalman, I am sorry that your wife has not been responsive. I wish I had been given that chance! Yes my husband is a risk taker, well built and handsome. He is also shorter than me so sometimes has that short mans syndrome and has low self esteem. But I have to say as his wife I am always told I look much younger than him (I am the same age) I am tall, lean, strong and a natural redhead to boot. I get loads of attention BUT I am committed to my family and my husband and I know when to stop the attention.

    Sounds like you have tried everything with your wife and you provide her with a wonderful lifestyle. Have you asked you point blank that you would consider leaving your marriage because of the sex? Even though you say a European Country is more accepting of infidelity what you don’t say is the devastation it could cause your family and your children. Yes I am worried about our boys, especially our middle son as he is taking his anger out on me. They all refuse to tell their father how very disgusted and disappointed they are in him, stating things like “Dad won’t listen, he does not care”. So I have to keep trying to talk to them and hopefully get us all into family therapy. Our oldest lives in another State and his choice is to not have anything to do with his Father as he has lost all respect for him. Our son was engaged before and his fiance cheated on him, I just learned this. His words were “She was a horrible, ugly person” only now I am learning about her cheating.

    So really think on this and I do believe you are as you would not have posted here. I can tell you it is now 9 1/2 months since my husband confessed to his affair and almost 6 weeks since I booted him out. Found out today and already spoke to him that she contacted him and they met up once again. He swears no sex as we still have sex but no surprise on my part, she is a fraud and a piece of work. Told my husband I was calling her husband and he asked me not too and I told him, your time is up and I am moving forward. First time I ever heard my husband scared, so he is coming over tonight and we will talk all night if we have too. I also made another call to an attorney as I will NOT go down this road again. I love and respect myself way too much to allow my husband to drag me down with him.

  98. Thanks for your insight ladies. BTW…..IwishIwas normal……………..you said:

    Oh, and that last statement about women admiring cheater, that would only be women who would cheat with one. Let me assure you, it’s not attractive to the rest of us.

    Keep in mind that in some countries (like Russia) infidelity rates are near 50% so that makes half of women cheaters. The “rest of us” in hypocrytic God fearing America maybe but don’t for a second think those values are identifical elsewhere. Certainly not in the middle east, where this problem doesn’t exist as polygamy is permitted (not that I’m advocating but hey at least it’s honest).

    I am not trying to convert you to my way of thinking, I accept that I am a man and you are women and we will never reach the same conclusion on this. All the best, I hope my wife isn’t on this thread in the next couple of months. Who knows, maybe she’s cheating on me lol?

  99. Anormalman, a couple of questions for you:

    1) Have you tried marriage counseling? It sounds like this is a serious lack of communication. I doubt that your wife knows that you’re feeling desperate enough that you’re considering cheating, and if you don’t tell her how you are feeling, then you’re not giving your marriage a fighting chance. Think about how much you’ll wish you’d talked openly about this if you go ahead and cheat, lie about it, and see how utterly crushed she is when she finds out. When, not if. Most people’s guts can pick up on something being wrong, and trust me, it is agonizing when your gut tells you you’re being deceived and betrayed and your trying to convince yourself you’re imagining things – that the person you love more than anyone in the world would do something so horrible to you. And yes, if you cheated, you’d be doing that to HER. Not “just for yourself”. You would be unloading a WMD at her sense of self, self-esteem, and loyalty to you. Please – think of a better solution.

    2) If you find that you are so desperately unhappy, then why don’t you divorce her instead? What are your reasons for staying married to her? Is it because you love her? Is it because you have children and you don’t want to split their home? Is it because you have built a nice life together and you want to keep it that way? You don’t want to lose out on what you’ve built? If you love her, why are you thinking of cheating on her? If you don’t love her, then why are you still married to her? It sounds like you really want to resolve this within your marriage instead of either cheat or divorce. Well, if you have tried to work on an issue that is so important to you, but you and your wife cannot seem to find resolution, you might consider that as important as it is to find someone whose needs match yours, it is equally important that your wife finds someone whose needs match hers. Give each other a chance to be happy. Get divorced if you have to, remarry to someone whose libido matches yours, and let your wife find a man whose libido matches hers (yes, they’re out there, not every man is a raging body of hormones). Don’t selfishly go out and find another woman to sleep with and then come to your wife and deceive her night after night. Do the fair thing to both of you and LET HER GO before it ever comes to that point. It might be the hard thing, but it’s the right thing to do.

    1. Anormalman – Thanks for sharing your perspective in a respectful manner, I always appreciate a man’s perspective coming to the site.

      I get the sex thing. My husband cheated for the same reason, so there is something to be said about sex drives and cheating. I was pregnant, the sex drive for me went down, he cheated and couldn’t stop even when things went back to normal.

      If my husband came to me and say “Honey, I know you are pregnant, but as a man, I am having a really hard time with the lack of sex, so much so that I am having thoughts to be with other women.” If he would of said those words to me, I would of been hurt, but at the same time I would of felt loved that he came to me. I ask you why don’t men talk to us like that, we can handle that much better than lying.

      He lied – over and over again. The lying kills me. I consider myself an open person, so I all of this sneaking and lying was so disrespectful.

      We have had the conversation of open relationship – I asked him just to see what he would say, and of course, he was angry and offended I would even bring up the topic. My husband would not entertain me with another man – absolutely not, i know you say you would be ok with it, but most men do not give off that vibe to their wives. Which is more shocking when we find out about the affair. “Mr. – I love you so much and can not stand the thought of you with anyone else” Sexing it up with another woman?

      If he would of said ‘I can’t do this, I am falling for another women and I want a divorce’ – I would of been hurt, but not completely devastated. Instead he lied, and saw both of us at the same time. Why not get a divorce and then you can date women and get those needs met? Maybe even find someone with similar sex drive. I think a man’s pride is attached to ‘marriage’ and they would rather lie and hurt the wife than to get divorced and mess up their image. Or is there something I am not thinking of here?

      You are not getting your sexual needs met and what I think you are saying is that it is unreasonable to expect that a man is not going to have desires or act upon them during a long term marriage. If it is so unreasonable, let’s get that out in the open. If you marry at 20, and at 30, you changed, why not have a conversation like we are having? Tell your wife, 4-8 times is not enough, you are a man, and if you do not get your needs met, you will look outside the marriage and see what she says. She might say go ahead, just protect yourself and I do not want to know. She might say that is not going to work. Or she might want to understand and really make an effort to do better. I get that it is frustrating going to her again and again for sex and getting rejected, but just tell her that. Tell her that one women is not enough, you need diversity, and see what she says. She would be hurt, but you might be surprised that she can handle the mature conversation, like I said, it’s the lies and secrets and messy cheating we can’t handle. It’s once you get caught, acting like you will never cheat again, and then continue to cheat, that is what we can’t handle. Tell her before you cheat, don’t do it behind her back. Share what you wrote on the site, be honest with how you feel, I think that is what is causing so many problems, no one wants to have the real conversation. And telling her means being brutally honest, because if you ask my husband, he is going to say I tried to tell you, I told you I was frustrated. Well that did not equal lying and cheating in my book. As a women I can say I am frustrated that you are not affectionate, but doesn’t mean I am going to run out and get another man who is more affectionate.

      The women on this site are not these women that just can’t fathom their husband cheating, that is not where the devastation is. We don’t get the lies, the blatant cheating, the unprotected sex, the avoiding the real conversation – we are mature, we can handle a conversation.

      My last question to you, many men do things with the other women that they do not do with the wife – what is your opinion on that. My husband would talk dirty to the OW but did not want to do that stuff when I presented it prior to cheating, why?

      I interact from women all over the world (yes even in the middle east), all cultures, so I do not believe it is an American thing to make a deal about cheating. Many other cultures have wives that are living in secret misery over cheating husbands. All cultures are impacted by this and you could be in Africa or Brazil, the pain from it is universal. Again, if you accept at marriage to have 2 other wives, cool, do what works in your marriage, with consent of both parties, that is key.

      I do feel because of technology, the affairs are being exposed at a level that is higher than ever before, in the past, women didn’t know husbands were cheating like this, now we know due to technology and have months of text messages of our husbands sexting other women. You can not just ignore that when you see it, it sticks with you.

      We need to talk to men more on this site, because unfortunately cheating often ruins the entire foundation of a family or has serious impacts for the wife. So let’s talk about it.

  100. Jewels — you hit the nail on the head. The conversation about the differences within a marriage is key — both need to be willing to have it though. I divorced my first husband because of his lack of desire — I didn’t want to cheat, but getting no sex is so frustrating. I was only married 3 years- – but we dated for 4 prior to that and it was never a problem. Then…..as soon as you get married — it’s like they put you on a pedestal — can’t talk that way to my wife, can’t do those things with my wife. Seriously? I thought it would get even better since we were married. I was certainly willing. So Anormalman — there are many women out there in your situation. You should really have a long conversation with her. I think that communication and sex/affection are two musts in the relationship — that is what makes it special. Otherwise, why even get married? You are providing everything to her — but have you asked her what else she needs from you…..If it’s a two-way conversation, maybe she will open up more on what her needs are too and feel that the compromise is the solution. You get more and she gets what she wants…..but you need to know what that is rather than assume. My current husband is a great provider of a wonderful lifestyle — but he cheated in an emotional affair that did involve kissing — probably would have gone to sex but I discovered it very early. We women have great gut instincts. Don’t cheat — it’s more devastating than you think. It’s like a punch in the stomach — over and over again. It truly affects your health, your self-esteem, your whole life. Spare her of that (regardless of your feelings for her – if you are in love or not) — it’s something that would torture her for the rest of her life. If you can’t live with your “negotiation”, let her go — in a respectful way — before you do something that will crush her. Especially if she is a good person like you say. 🙂

  101. Wow, great discussion. I love my wife, I want to be married to her. I love my children AND I want more sex. We (her and I) have communicated ad naseum about this. I have suggested swinging, an open marriage, etc. She is not completely opposed to swinging but it largely has to center on MMF I think as she would likely feel threatened by FFM. I could handle her being with another guy if it was only for sex but she has said she fears that it would grow into love and is scared to take that risk and harm our relationship. I think it is actually qute skillful of her, she will play an open mind in these conversations but when it comes down it to, I think she is quite happy with the status quo. Trust me, it’s not a lack of communication. She is totally fine with me finding a release through porn and understands my drive is bigger than hers but is not cool with me having sex with another physical person. The thing is porn is like beef jerky and sex is filet mignon. I really don’t like beef jerky.

    To answer your questions about why the husband does things with the other woman that he won’t do with his wife, I honestly don’t get it. I would treat the other woman no better than equal to my wife. If my wife proposed pretty much anything kinky, I would do it in a heartbeat. Predictably, it is usually me proposing the kinky things and her using her power to decide wether she is up for it (which occasionally happens to her credit).

    Some of you act like it is no big deal to be honest and tell her that if she doesn’t put out more often then we should end it. I watch my children with their mother and relish the happy times we have as a family. I don’t want to destroy that. I will not break my childrens heart by leaving them without a full time father who fights everyday for them. I love to be a man who kicks this worlds ass daily for my family.

    Last year I met up with a women (beautiful but inferior to my wife) for an evening, drank some champage overlooking a lake and I kissed her for awhile but in the end it didn’t lead to sex. I haven’t seen her since in that setting and don’t care if I do because I don’t care about her in an emotional way. I went home to my wife and children and carried on life like nothing meaningful happened – becuase nothing meaninful did happen. I continued to lavish compliments on my wife and treat her just as good if not better than the other woman. My family is still intact, my children and I have no issues, etc. Why would I want to end that? I am good at being discreet and am confident I could get away with more. All I want is more sex but I do not want to end my marriage or family. Since most ppl (both guys & girls) cannot handle an open marriage, including my wife, I am forced to behave on the sly, which I hate too. I think that if most women were honest on this thread if their man came to them and said: “honey, I love you. We both know that you are not interested in sex as much as I am. So with your approval, I’m going to seek out purely sexual interaction. You are well aware that I am easily able to keep things purely sexual so my heart will always be yours. I promise you continuing and regular endearments, romance and everything else you want. Can you agree to this?”

    99% of women would say no. Consequently, the lair, the cheater and deceiver is born.

    I really don’t mind if some women here find me detestable. That’s OK. Life is not easy and there is no “right” way for everyone. There really isn’t a win/win situation in this. It’s more tit-for-tat (in the scientific sense).

  102. So, you have already cheated. Listen, you’re correct that a lot of people (not just women) would say no to extramarital sex. In fact, your wife already has, and you went ahead and tried to do something anyway. Can you see that you’re completely disregarding her boundaries? And since you’re in a marriage TOGETHER, her boundaries to this thing do count. She does not want a third party in your marriage. Period. If you insist on stepping over those boundaries, well, it sounds like you need to make a choice. If you cannot live without more sex, and if the problem isn’t going to change, you need to divorce your wife. Yes, that does mean that your children will be in a broken home – but honestly, they already are. For crying out loud, you’re cheating on your wife! Your relationship with another woman (even if just for sex) is not just between you and her. It includes your wife whether she’s present or not. Are you going to wait to bring home an STD to her and your family? Cuz condoms do not prevent all STDs. Or until the condom breaks and you get another woman pregnant? Admit to yourself that sex is important. Now admit to yourself that lying to your wife, who has pledged her loyalty to YOU, is wrong. Stop being a liar.

  103. Actually, you’ve said that “nothing meaningful happened”, right? Because it wasn’t sex? Well, how about this… I dare you to tell your wife that you kissed someone. If it’s not a big deal, as you’ve said (because it didn’t go as far as sex), then maybe your telling her will communicate to her that you want more than what you’re getting with her. Make sure you tell her that the girl you kissed had nothing on her, lest she think it’s something wrong with her. Then write us back and let us know if it helped.

  104. Or how about if the OW falls in love with you, gets pregnant, then gets mad at you for not being committed to her, tells your wife everything, then sues you for child support, which is what happened to me? (the OW) Then to be a mega bitch refuses to let you see your own child because she’s decided you’re worthless swine. when i felt angry at him for using me for sex because he was bored with his wife, i had no sympathy for him or his marriage or his kids…i just went for the jugular, told the wife everything and took the bastard to court. now i get money from him and i never let him see his daughter because in my mind, he’s a bad role model and not someone i would want in her life. you say you can cheat and get away with it, but its not just you cheating, the OW might have other expectations (despite what she says, she may have another agenda) and she wont care if the affair destroyed your marriage because in her mind you destroyed her world too, and all’s fair in love and war. Its like committing murder- If you’re gonna do it, do it yourself, and dont ever tell anyone, and you just MIGHT get away with it. The minute you involve cohorts, as is necessary with cheating, you’re taking a huge risk because the cohort may very well not be willing to keep their mouth shut.
    Face the facts, you’re just another selfish pig like all cheating men, and if you dont want to be faithful to your wife, then dont stay married to her. Yes i know it’s so lovely to have a family and kids to go home to, but that’s a selfish reason to stay in the marriage. You want to stay for your own pleasure and convenience. You want to maintain the peaceful equilibrium in YOUR life. If deceiving your wife is what it takes for you to maintain the comforts of home life, so be it. Is that how you feel? That is very selfish. If you want to sleep around, get a divorce and go do it. Trust me when i say you cant have it both ways. Every married man out there thinks he’s gonna have it both ways. You cant. Eventually one of the women you’re with, no matter how much she promises not to (as i promised a hundred times not to squeal) eventually one of them will. After having been the OW, i know i would never ever ever forgive a cheating husband, because the wife only know half of what went on, the husbands white-washed version of events, and they are so eager to believe the lies to soothe their damaged psyche. As the OW, you know firsthand what really went on. You were right there, saw it, heard it, lived it. The wife is never going to get the full real story out of her husband. When she thinks she finally got all the details, there’s a hundred other things he left out. Seeing firsthand how truly selfish these men really are, i could never forgive or put up with a cheating husband. Your wife sounds like a lovely person and you really dont deserve her.

  105. Don’t see the point in telling her. That woman lives in another country and I’ll never see her again. My wife and I do have an arrangement that IF one of us ever has a sexual encounter with someone else AND it is brief/doesn’t lead to a relationship, then we don’t tell each other. If one of us in entering a relationship with someone else on the side, that’s a problem. I’m honoring the agreement – why would I upset her? I haven’t cheated fully, and I said that in my very first post. And (I’m being honest because this is anonymous) I only ever did it one time in our marriage. I wouldn’t want to know if my wife kissed someone else, why? What good would that do? Protestant/catholic based socieities are OBSESSED with “the confession”. Confession is retarded – don’t dump your problems on others, suffer in silence if your actions are causing you grief. Telling someone when you’ve done something wrong and saying sorry change NOTHING. Behaviour speaks volumes. I haven’t done anything (physical, emotional, risque, etc. nothing) since that night. So why talk about it at all?

    Like I said before, you can hate me, I cool with that. The interesting thing about this website is that it is largely a place where women (and I admit to doing it a little as well) are happy to discuss their partners faults, but not their own. Could it be you had a hand in causing the affair? Not saying this is the case but it might be. My fault is looking at life in a very binary way. Especially when ppl around me are trying to tell me that life is not binary. I am an ardent believer in evolutionary biology, perhaps to a fault. Maybe this is my contribution to the cause of issues in my own marriage?

    The other night I talked to her about the lack of sex thing and she does what she always does, takes it really personally and thinks I am telling her I don’t like her. Then, I explain (for the millionth time) that it is precisely the opposite, I love her and want her. Then she softened and we fooled around. Now she is going strong – but how long will it last? Hopefully a long time. Most of the time, a guy who’s wife has drained all the love juices out of him has herself a man without the inclination to look for it elsewhere. Right now, I’m that man. Hopefully it stays that way.

  106. I bring this up as food for thought.

    Sylvia you said:

    “Can you see that you’re completely disregarding her boundaries? And since you’re in a marriage TOGETHER, her boundaries to this thing do count. She does not want a third party in your marriage. Period. If you insist on stepping over those boundaries, well, it sounds like you need to make a choice. If you cannot live without more sex, and if the problem isn’t going to change, you need to divorce your wife”.

    If one of your women friends told you that she didn’t like having sex as often as her husband and didn’t want to change, would you say to her:

    “Can you see that you’re completely disregarding HIS boundaries? And since you’re in a marriage TOGETHER, HIS boundaries to this (lack of sex) do count. He wants you to honor the martial vows you made when you said for better or worse, in sickness or in health (e.g., to keep putting out even when the kids are annoying). If you insist on not living up to your side of the agreement (the sexual contract) well, it sounds like you need to make a choice. If you cannot stand to have sex with him as often as he wants, and if the problem isn’t going to change, you need to divorce your husband”.

    Say that during the next girls night out and someone complains about their husband wanting more sex. Tell the woman that she was deceptive because she offered lots of interesting sex to her husband in the beginning but later changed. I promise you, you’ll have very few female friends left.

    This goes both ways.

  107. I don’t have any female friends in that situation. Most of the women I know (myself included) have higher drives than our husbands or partners. You think I don’t know where you’re coming from with the wanting sex more than your wife thing? The whole reason why I feel comfortable commenting to you is because I have ALWAYS had a higher drive than my husband! One of many signs that I thought was giving me the “positive” go-ahead to date him is because I thought we were compatible – here he was, always bragging about some woman he’d done in the past. Now? And for some time? He wants it a couple times a week tops; I want it everyday. Makes it ten times more insulting that he cheated on me, even though he didn’t make it as far as sex with her (it was heading there); there’s also a strong chance that he physically cheated while I was pregnant, even though my libido was even higher than usual (if you can believe that). Guess what? Cheating is not in my vocabulary. I’ve already had my family destroyed twice by my mother’s sexual infidelities. Yes, my mother’s. No matter how well hidden one thinks they are, they’re always found out. Why did I have to go through that as a kid? Why did I have to lose my stability so she could get a piece of ass? Yeah, I like sex more than my husband. Yeah, it’s really frustrating sometimes when he rejects me – even more so the times when he chose porn over me – or makes me feel like a sex-freak. But guess what? It’s not his fault that his libido’s lower than mine, much less that it fluctuates, and I have no right to make him feel badly about it. Instead, I accept and unconditionally love him as he is, since I pledged to spend my life with him, and I celebrate his sexuality. No, I’m not ugly. Yes, we’re working on our self-esteem issues, which I’m realizing is huge in our lives right now. So what do I do with my sexual energy? Accept it. Channel it when we are intimate and cherish his body. And then, really understand that there is so much more to life than having an orgasm. And enjoying those things instead. Raising our child. Laughing with my husband. Enjoying long walks. Dancing in my living room. It sounds like you and your wife have an arrangement, fine. You have your arrangement. You know she doesn’t want you to sleep with other women, but you’ve agreed that as long as it’s a brief tryst, then you won’t tell each other. It’s not for everyone, and a lot of us here are in great pain because our husbands cheated. It’s very hard, and I’ll be the first to say I’d rather know than live in the dark. Otherwise, he’s making a decision about our relationship that I have no say in.

  108. Also… I don’t hate you Anormalman. I just strongly disagree with you on certain choices. Just like you strongly disagree with my opinions, and that’s okay. And it has nothing to do with religion.

  109. Well the title of this post really hit home with my situation and I should have posted here. It has been almost 10 long months since D-Day and 6 weeks ago I had my husband pack a bag and leave, a temporary separation. Which now he likes as he does not have any responsibility but working. He stopped therapy as he feels it is not needed (huge mistake as he is worse today than when he began) and he does not have a home to maintain. Then add to it that he and the OW began contact again! She is married and is telling people her husband has done a 180 and working hard but she does not believe it will stay and is thinking once again of leaving. Of course she had to say this to my husband who confessed all when I told him I knew he was meeting up with her again and where. It was all a gut instinct and bingo I was right. My husband once again turned it on me as it is all my fault and I am the cause of him not feeling good about himself. Same ol saga, whenever he sees her he is like a broken record….. not buying into it anymore. His biggest fear is others will know and well that is happening. I told my husband I was going to tell her husband and he begged me not too.

    So I see the OW in the parking lot at our gym, so I go up to her car and say Happy Birthday to her passenger I know and then look at her and say “I know everything, even your current conversations and I am done with you and done with the secrets and I am going right now to have some nice conversations with all our mutual friends”, she yells good and I turn and walk away. As I am walking behind her car she throws it in reverse and hits me! Then starts yelling at me as I am screaming, “You just hit me, stop” she does it again and I run out of the way. This was witnessed and I did file a police report and the witness said that lady did that on purpose and then she almost hit me. She is crazy and out of control. Me, I will stay away from our gym and go elsewhere as I now feel threatened and unsafe living along in our home. I am considering a restraining order and just told our 2 youngest sons what has happened and I have told my family and my husbands family. This is crazy! The OW does not like that I am talking and some mutual friends now will have nothing to do with her and my husband. Because of this my husband is also losing clients. Well, you play, you pay! There are consequences to bad behavior. Also several of my friends know her because she is a Dental Hygenist and her husband is a Dentist. So they have told the office Mgr. of the Dental Office they refuse to have her based on her decision to sleep with a married man. So I am sure she is getting it from all sides.

    So yes the do affair down and I will stay away for my safety and sanity.

    1. Jules – OMG – CRAZY . At first she was like ‘good’ but then probably got mad that he circle would now know who she was. This does align to the topic, I have heard so many stories of the OW doing crazy things, trying to run you over, your husband should be so proud of this, so proud.

      Jennifer – Thanks I enjoyed your perspective. It’s so sad that our husbands can see us in the sexual way that they should. That is very interesting that once you are ‘married’ now he feels he can not have sex with you that way, because now you are the wife. I am sure most of us would agree in saying we would rather you bring this up and deal with it versus going off with the OW and living out your sexual desires.

      Sylvia – Great comments as well, I am so glad that you and Jennifer shared your high sex drives, sometimes there is an assumption that women do not have as high sex drive as men, and it depends. I am also glad you shared your mother’s story because women cheat all the time as well. Reading your latest updates I can understand why this situation is all the more painful for you. Seeing the family destroyed as a child and now your marriage is at risk. And like you, I would of been furious if I had a high sex drive, and he still cheating. But you really hit home with the self-esteem comment. The need for validation is strong in men and unfortunately they get greedy and need to have validation from more than one person. But if they had a strong sense of self from the jump, all this would probably not of occurred, thanks for sharing!

      Anormalman – I agree with Sylivia, no hate, it is just expressing a difference of opinion. You expressions on how you are putting your story together on why you feel the need to cheat is probably in the minds of many men all over the world.

      The part about not wanting to get a divorce because of the kids, makes sense. Your manhood is wrapped around your ability to provide for your wife and your family. And leaving/divorce might mean to you that you failed as a man. This is why I felt like my husband wanted to stay and work things out. It wasn’t because of mending the marriage, it was more of making sure he still kept up with the image of providing for his family and kids. I know you mentioned the kids, but I feel you leaving would be more about your pride and image of failing the marriage than it is the kids. Because if the kid issue was that strong, you would not even think about cheating. You cheat, and trust me by the act of cheating it is a risk to the family, and if she ever finds out, your kids are going to be impacted big time, whether you stay together or not.

      I think many men think ‘it is just sex’ but as you can see from the site, finding out your husband cheating impacts you on so many levels, you have no idea, trust is gone, lying, secrets, as a wife you do not know what to believe anymore. So we do not look at it as ‘just sex’.

      Although you think that you might be able to handle just sex, beware. Most men start out like this, and then get caught up. And I know that you do not think you will get caught, but every person that has ever got caught thought the same thing.

      You mentioned you and your wife(who seems to be awesome!) agreed that if you or her has sex outside the marriage, you would not share. But then at the same time you say she doesn’t want you to have physical sex?

      I know you said that being blunt she would not go for that, and that 99% women would not agree to that type of set up. In my opinion, if my husband says what you quoted to me, I might say no I do not want you to have sex with someone else, and that is ok because after that was presented in my mind I now know – wooo this is really serious with my husband, it is no joke, he is thinking about going outside of the marriage. But if you do not give me that indication that it is that serious, I will not know.

      I will be honest with you Anormalman, as women, we have alot going on. Your main job (I am assuming here) is to work and provide financially – great. As women we have to provide love and support for kids, make sure the house is clean, try to look good, and some of us have jobs as well. So if we only have sex with you 2 times out the week and you need it 4 times, you using that as a reason to cheat is not top of mind, we have too many other things going on to think about that. I am not saying this is the case in your marriage, but in the majority of cases, as women, we have a ton of responsibility,and you not getting it enough is not an alarming critical issue when we have 30 other things to juggle in our mind. But at the time if men are using this to cheat, then it is a critical issue. Now if I didn’t work full time, cook, clean, take care of the kids and make sure bills are paid, then yes I might be able to dedicate more time to my husband’s sexual needs. But like Sylvia said, sex is not always why men stray, she wanted it everyday. I have no idea how much responsibility your wife has, but I think there is still more to the conversation with her. I know you feel like you have talked about this with her over and over again. But maybe go at it from a different angle. Women’s lack of sex is not always because of low sex drive. Sometimes is is exhaustion, sometimes it is feeling comfortable with sex, sometimes it is just getting her to experiment what she likes a little more. I really don’t know, I am just trying to thing of things other than cheating, I just think there is more to it than just ‘low sex drive’ and I think that many men use that perception to go outside the marriage without exploring more.

      Yes, the women that comment do not put out all the things they need to work on, because the site is about sharing their story however they see fit. And yes I do not advise women to talk about how they messed up within the marriage. We all have a story about how we are not perfect in our marriage – men and women. But if you cheat, the cheater needs to be accountable and responsible for his actions, and not blame the fact that we are not perfect and have faults, we all do, that doesn’t give people a free ticket to cheat. I do not encourage women to blame themselves for the actions of the husband. A man always has other options other than cheating, so if you decide to do it, it is on you.

      I just thought of something, let’s say just as an example that she craves a good conversation and you are not giving that to her, so she meets someone that does that, and she gets involved. But she still is an amazing wife, cooks, cleans, great with kids, but meets with a man a couple times a week just to get that ’emotional’ need met, would you be ok with that?

  110. 1st off – love you ladies (don’t worry, platonic only -lol) your perspectives are great. Hugs to Sylvia.

    Jewels, I would be THRILLED if my wife met with another dude for coffee now and then for some emo time. I beleive that no one person can fulfill all your needs. As an imperfect man, I know that there are recesses in the soul of my wife that I don’t understand (yet) and maybe another does. That said, my self esteem and confidence is high enough to know that what I offer my wife would be hard for another to fully replace.

    My wife is an amazing woman, that’s why I married her. She is a woman who can show up in a new country and have ppl eating out of her hand in minutes and have an army of friends in months.

    As for having a lot going on, you absolutely do. However (and this is a big however), you don’t know anything about me. I want no pity, nor do I want to reveal too much about me, but I will say that my life’s work has to do with preventing death and we all have stress in our lives. My wife will freely admit her life is less stressful than mine and could be even less stressful with the flick of a credit card. In her case, I dont buy the too busy for sex excuse BUT for many women I absolutely do. I look at some married women and feel like taking them out for a glass of chamagne overlooking thte mountains and just listen to them talk because clearly no one is doing that for them, ever. Maybe that’s why it’s easy for me to get into trouble.

    As for getting into trouble, after all this banter, I am not really feeling like cheating for the moment. Maybe this moment will last a week, maybe a lifetime.

    Who knows?


  111. So you don’t feel like cheating now. Does that mean that everything is feeling right and in a good and balanced place with you, your wife, and your family (especially inside within you)? Good on you! Try to remember what this moment feels like, if you can try to notice what’s in place that makes it good. In your harder moments, may I suggest, look back on this and think about how you and your family can return to this place. Strive for *this* if it feels content. Good luck to you and your wife.

  112. This is just crazy, I am learning so much more about the crazy other woman. Tonight a friend and her boyfriend came to dinner, his ex used to work for the OW’s husband and knew them both socially as well. Well her advice to me is get away, as far away as possible. Also that I must file a restraining order because the OW is very unstable, controlling and is bi-polar! Plus she and her Dentist husband both have had affairs before. It is hard to hear this stuff but it is all making sense. Then you have my husband whose ego is stroked by the OW and really not in a good place at all right now. I can always tell when the OW has talked to him as his mood changes and he becomes distant and more confused.

    So what to do? I want to shake my husband hard and say “Open your eyes, you are being used and manipulated” and then the other part of me just wants to run and shut this chapter. I wish I did not love and care so much for my husband. I just have this feeling this is going to get uglier and I have to protect myself and my boys.

    Wow is all I have to say and her behavior Friday hitting me with her car just proved many things I have had a gut feeling on. Wow, my husband picked a doosey!

  113. Funny enough I have been both in the same year, the wife whose husband cheated on and the OW, and I am not schizophrenic. What happened happened and I stopped seeing the married man because I find it wrong for me. He pursued me at a time that I was at my weakest – I was pregnant with my second child, my husband moved out because he had an affair and was in love with the OW, I felt lonely and sad. And then, there was this fantastic guy at work who gave me wonderful attention and was there for me all the time, and in no time at all, I was involved with a married man. I was shocked – I just suffered an affair in my marriage and now I had an affair with a married man! I was an OW!
    So, to all of you out there who blame the OW or the wife, I was both, and the truth is, yes, I blame myself deeply for letting my marriage slide down the boredom slope and I blame myself for falling for a married man. I could go on forever on a guilt trip about how awful and pathetic I am. But on the other hand, I am fair, I do not only blame myself, I also think that both my husband and the married man I had an affair with, no matter how bad their situation was, they could have done things differently, they could have approached their partners, spouses and try to communicate before jumping into bed with another woman.
    In the end my point is – I believe we should stop blaming each other, be it wife or OW, but support each other, all women, work together. Throughout history we were predestined to hate each other when it comes to men, we are their addition, their extras when they play a main role in our lives. I do not think it should be this way, I believe, we, if we only tried to see men as they are, we would be able to work together better. I have a tendency to see men as incompetent and prone to sudden outbursts of uncontrollable sexual energy. BS. That is how I was brought up. Now,I THINK THAT REALLY THEY ARE AS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS AS WE ARE, AND THEY SHOULD PAY THE CONSEQUENCES. SO, WHEN A MARRIED MAN CHEATS, ONLY HE IS TO BLAME, HE IS UNHAPPY PERHAPS BUT HE CHOOSES TO MAKE MORE PEOPLE UNHAPPY THROUGH HIS ACTIONS.
    For us women, I see as the only way, moving forward and towards yourself. Does not matter if you have to stay in a marriage because of circumstances or you leave because you can. Forgive the OW, forgive other women, but make your husband work super hard for your forgivness as he is the one that wronged you the most…
    Signing out…

  114. I find the comments from the other woman posting in this thread interesting.

    I found out my husband was cheating with a married woman. Yes, our marriage of 26 years had rough patches, as the OW’s say, but what long term relationship of any nature does not go through rough patches. If the OWs were married for 26 years to the men they cheat with, they too would have rough patches. It would be impossible not to and unrealistic to think things will always be perfect in any relationship. Marriages take work to endure.

    I left my husband after trying to make things work for 2 years. I just could not stand to listen to his excuses anymore. And, after the affair, no matter what he did, and he tried hard, he never made me feel special to him, in the way I felt prior to the affair. I always felt he chose me because I am and always was a much better woman the the OW. My husband told me this many times, so that’s not just my ego talking.

    He also said that he truly wanted things to work out because he loved me and never stopped loving me. He also said he would never marry someone like the other woman because he could never trust a woman who would cheat on her husband ( yeah weird I know) But it’s true cheater hate to be cheated on.

    Early on he did blame everything on me, but later, when he came out of the fog, he apologized and admitted that he was saying those things to the OW so that he would not feel bad, nor look bad. He needed to hold onto his nice guy image, even though cheating kinda’ outed him as a not so nice guy.

    In any case, I was married to him a long time and always put his career first and helped him start a business. I am now collecting semi-permanent alimony and I received a larger share of half our assets.

    I do not intend to marry again. Right now I date, but only men who treat me special, the way my husband treated the OW special. I never date married men though. I really don’t see how anyone with an ounce of intelligence could. Putting the immorality aside, the statistics show that only 3 percent of married men leave to marry the OW, and marriages to OWs have an extremely high rate of failure…..Karma perhaps.

    Just because a person has an advanced degree does not guarantee that they are intelligent. Intelligence and passing a test are not correlated. One has to do with memory and the other has to do with cognitive abilities.

    In any case, ladies, make sure you see an attorney before you put too much energy in making a marriage with a cheater work.

    I wish I hadn’t wasted two years trying to make things work with a cheater. I am so much happier out on my own, without him.

    The bottom line is I loved him, and he did not love anybody but himself.

    Sad thing is I still love him, but I could not stand myself when I was with him. I felt used, second best, always worried he would cheat again because he showed his true colors and I was jealous of every women he looked at or talked to.

    I was never a jealous person. I hated feeling as if I had to check up on my husband and forbid his guy trips because he used those to cheat with the OW

    He was a major trigger and now that I don’t see him daily, that trigger is gone and I feel so much more healthy.

  115. To anormal man:

    I have read your posts and you are going to eventually destroy your marriage, if your wife every learns of an affair…..one nighter or emotional relationship.

    My husband had an emotional, financial and sexual affair….complete with secret credit cards bank accounts, expensive trips and expensive dinners out for the OW.

    My ex husband treated the OW better than he ever treated me. I was always cautious with our money, and there he was spending like a drunken sailor on an amoral woman who had cheated many many times prior on her own husband.

    It was impossible to feel special after finding out those details.

    BTW: The unstable OW outed my husband. I have learned this is not uncommon. In fact, she wanted to marry my husband and she needed to get the wife out of the way to do that.

    The thing she did not realize is that my husband could never handle being cheated on, and he did not want to end our marriage. He tried really really hard to make amends. But, you can’t make amends once marriage vows are broken.

    So men who love their wives better think long and hard about having an affair.

    My husband had a disposable phone and a android with the bill going to his office. The OW told me everything. It turned out to be true. My husband said he never thought he would get caught. Well, he did and so do most men.

    There were changes that were taking place in our marriage that were red flags. I was attributing them to work stress. But, even if the OW had not outed him, I would have soon started to suspect an affair.

    The bottom line is I always knew my husband had a selfish streak. It also was the cause of a lot of rough patches in our marriage. I am a people pleaser and always put his care and feeding first. I always even felt guilty about thinking he was selfish. But His affair opened my eyes to the truth. He IS selfish and always was.

    After finding out about the affair, I stopped being so cautious about my spending.

    The OW was a spoiled woman married to a very wealthy man. He spoiled her, while I watched my husbands money and deprived myself. I stopped doing that.

    Also, after the divorce, I had so much more money to spend. Why because he wasn’t around to spend my money on his toys and the OW.

  116. Hey ess:

    You said:

    My ex husband treated the OW better than he ever treated me. I was always cautious with our money, and there he was spending like a drunken sailor on an amoral woman who had cheated many many times prior on her own husband.

    I have made a point of treating my wife the best of all. She lives (literally) a champagne life and just returned from a weekend the average woman has only in her dreams.

    You cannot compare me to your husband. I have openly discussed my desire to cheat with my wife – she knows it exists within me. This does not mean she isn’t “special” to me. I am not the selfish man you describe above.

    It is possible to love more than one person at the same time. Some people can make it work. Clearly monogamy is a massive failure (why does this website exist?). The sooner the princess fantasy ends for adult women, the better. It is like a man having a fantasy that life will be full of interesting and lustful sex.

    Good point about unstable other women, better to go to a prostitute who will keep quiet about things than with some retard, no matter how hot she is. Not that I have been with either.

    Perhaps an adjustment of perspective would help us all realize the failed social construct we were raised in re: marriage and relationships is hurting us.

    Some women here say they still love their husbands. Duh, they are probably great guys. That is why other women want to have them. I think it a big compliment (to the wife) for a man to stay with her even when he is having sex with another who is of lower importance. It means the guy really loves his wife and wants to stay with her.

    I hear talk of marriage vows being broken. We all break our marriage vows at times when we mentally check out and place our own needs above our partners. Sex is but another aspect. Often on these posts there is a begrudged recognition of “rough patches”. Why is the act of sex so much worse than the “rough patches” that may have been caused by the partner that was not the cheater?

    Sex is well, just sex. If you let your husbands approach it that way they wouldn’t have had to lie. For those guys who won’t let it go the other way, then yes, they are selfish pricks and you probably know you should have left them long ago, way b4 the affair. Often, the affair is just the catalyst needed to end a doomed relationship anyway.

    Just my 02 for today. Comments meant to provoke thought, not to attack.

  117. You might intend to make her feel special, “the most special”, and you might really regard her as being special, but if you cheat, she will not feel special anymore. You cannot control that with words or actions once you have broken your vows. She will not feel special anymore, and there’s nothing you can do about it unless she rebuilds her self-esteem herself. Can you imagine how hopeless you would feel, seeing the love of your life kneeling broken on the floor overwhelmed by her sadness and pain, and there is nothing you can do about it – and the kicker is that she’s that way to begin with because you did something very intentionally that you knew would hurt her but believed she would never find out? Could she ever really feel special again? Could you make it up to her afterward? No, you couldn’t, you don’t have control anymore. More appropriately – could she ever heal herself? Could she ever be able to understand that you really do want her to feel special to you? And in any case, it still might not come back. You might come to realize that the cheating is what caused her to feel no longer special. And even if you regret it by then, you cannot unf*ck the donkey. You can never undo what you’ve done. So think and feel carefully before you cross that line.

    Please, listen to the women who have posted. Read the pain in their words. Instead of worrying about details, see the big picture. We are devastated by our husbands’ cheating. We are in pain. Please think of any other options than to inflict that pain on your wife and children.

  118. Sylvie

    I have been listening to the women here. It pains me to see that women have decided to let the actions of another control their thoughts and feelings to such a great extent.

    To those of you on here who have been abused by your cheating husbands, I wish you the best as you heal. To those who were surprised by it all, try and find a new perspective on relationships and stay with your husband or if you want to live the difficult reality of monogamy, then cut your losses and find someone new.

    For those of you who love ambitious, testosterone driven and handsome men, you may want to accept that monogamy will likely always be a challenge for your partners and reframe your view of the world. For those who can tolerate a plain man with few options sexually, low testosterone, a low drive to succeed in the world (but maybe a high drive to succeed in the domestic and family sphere) then you are more likely to find a happy monogamous relationship. I know this is a generalization with exceptions but I really believe it is a general rule.

    So yes, I hear the pain. Let it go, move on in the way that works for you and enjoy the rest of your lives. Life is too short to live in emotional pain that can easily be healed. Think of those in terminal pain, cancer, etc. that will never be able to move on. The kind of emotional pain described here can be cured.


  119. When I finally ‘caught’ my husband cheating it was, with what is becoming all too familiar in this day of ‘technology”, with an old girlfriend of 20 years ago!!! When they were just BABIES (late teens)…. both were married with children! Here’s what I learned (because I decided to contact the OW and find out as much as I could……and by that time she was more than willing to share because HE broke it off with her because he was just using her for sex!!!). She told me of how they were talking about moving in together (she lived in Texas, he lived in S. Florida) and she had three kids and he has two. She even sent me some of their emails where he was telling her how much he loved her, etc. DOES IT GET ANY CRAZIER OR IMMATURE????? And my ‘ex’ (as he is an ‘ex’ now!!) is a top-notch, high-powered business man with a Masters Degree and makes over $350,000/yr……so it boggles the mind how no matter what level they are on, they turn into childish, immature BOYS!!!! Well, as it turned out, he found this woman on the Internet (which is quickly becoming the #1 destroyer of marriages, in one form or another!!). ….so I decided to do my own Internet research!!! I found her address and I sent a certified letter to her husband explaining in detail everything that I knew had gone on between them, her lies and deceit to him & their children, etc. I never heard anything from him but when I continued to “track her” throughout the year (because it became an obsession for me, and I’m sure I’m not alone on that!!) I discovered the online court proceedings regarding their divorce!! I’m glad he divorced her and I’m glad she got what she deserved! As for my ‘ex’…..I chose to attempt to repair our 20 year marriage but in the end it obviously wasn’t repairable! We are now divorced and he married yet another “OW” (much younger) and was so awe-struck with her and their whirl-wind romance that he agreed to have a baby with her (this is her first marriage/no previous kids) and they had to go through expensive IVF treatments which produced twins! So, if that’s what he thinks is going to make his ‘new’ life more fulfilled than his old one, he’s got a rude awakening ahead (we have two adult children together and he is pushing 50!!!). What goes through those immature minds??????? And he is soooo in debt (did I mention he’s a Narcissist??), that he’s going to make her go back to work (while paying for a Nanny for twins!!) and he ‘travels’ for a living (he’ll continue to have affairs I imagine!!) and she will be exhausted (just like the rest of us after we start playing ‘house’ and have a family) and then what? Do they EVER realize how ridiculous and immature they have been? Do they EVER realize that no matter how ya twist & turn it, that playing ‘house’ just boils down to “same shit, different wife” ???????????? aarrgghh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  120. freebird — Your story is so common among people at our age — I’m hearing more and more — and with a H who has earning power — the chances are exponential. Just like anormalman says — the narcissist/successful types are more likely to cheat. Women go after them for the upgrade — and the men don’t say no….. They have so much more opportunity. My H was married before and gave her a pretty nice settlement — He has had several EAs in our marriage — is now in counseling and has turned it around — but for how long. I hear that when he was going through his divorce, so many women at work were after him — so that tells me everything. I truly believe the women give the first vibe. Maybe the man tests the waters with flirtation — but the women control it — and in my case, two of them were married and were miserable in their marriages (they have kids too). It’s amazing how men just love the ego boost and can truly compartmentalize everything. They don’t think the same way we do. I’m going to look up the Narcissist thing. Not sure if my H is that or not — he actually has low self-esteem — but sometimes I wonder if he is playing everyone…..he can be incredibly immature and is very selfish when he doesn’t get his way. So freebird, just remember what goes around comes around — he will get his just “reward” for everything. Hopefully to your true satisfaction!!! I hope you got a good settlement — he can only divide his half into another half a limited number of times…..

  121. Hi Ella and thanks for your input and support! I’m sorry you too have gone through the same ordeal! I had felt for a VERY long time that my ‘ex’ had changed drastically over the years but I never knew what a Narcissist was until I was researching ‘personality disorders’ trying to figure out what my brother is plagued with and stumbled onto the Narcissist section and BINGO that was it!!! I’d always made comments to him about his enormous ego and if only he could find an ounce of humility within himself, it would make a difference, etc. I then couldn’t read up on it enough….it was a HUGE relief to finally discover what I had been living with!!! It says that Nars are actually insecure, but they have a way of covering it up to look like they are confident and that’s exactly what he did. Nars also think they are above the law and are not at fault for anything…..they blame everyone else for any problems in their lives. And as his paycheck grew so did his ego and so did his ability to get the women!!!! While he traveled for his job, I was home raising children, managing the finances and holding down the fort (I was a stay-at-home-Mom for the entire 23 year marriage). So yes, I am the last of the dying breed of “alimony” qualifiers!!! And yes, I got a pretty decent ‘settlement’ (but he still wasn’t completely fair with me, but I just wanted him out of my life!!). Fortunately for me, a Narcissist lives to ‘show off’ and all the debt that HE managed to obtain for ‘us’ over the years was all about him showing off and having more than his friends, neighbors, co-workers….. and since he still wanted his “show-off toys” he got the debt-load that went with them!!!! He is in debt up to his eyeballs but all he has to say about that is “it’s just money, I’ll make more” and his life motto is: “He who dies with the most toys wins” (and he believes HE should be the winner). He is as arrogant as they come and needs a ‘partner’ that will stroke that huge ego (which I was NOT good at that at all…..I was just the opposite……I call a spade, a spade!!). The new, dumb thing that he married (who he was cheating on me with) is such an air-head that she once made the comment (in front of my daughter) “once a cheater, always a cheater” and then she saw my “ex” and daughter’s expressions and said, “oh, but not you baby” ……DUH…..good luck with that you dumb little slut! aarrgghh!!! Oh, and just so you know, I actually have replaced my wedding ring with a “Karma” ring and I have the Karma ‘motto’ tattooed on my back (What goes around, comes around) in the ‘never ending circle’ . So my hope is that she will finally see what he’s all about and realize he won’t be much help with those babies (and that he’s still out philandering) and she leaves him (she won’t get alimony because she has a decent education and was working when they met and will have to go back to work anyway…..but she WILL get child-support, for two) and with the debt he’s already in he will truly be hurting!!!! That’s the only thing that causes him pain……wallet troubles! I never seem to stop being able to ‘rant’ about this subject…….sigh!

  122. I actually found out the OW was better established than I was whether it by a degree or plain inheritance. It really doesnt matter. At first it did bother me especially since she was a few years younger than me. After awhile that wasnt important to me. She can have everything but what she doesnt have is respect for herself and lack of character and above all she didnt get to keep my H. After speaking with her I could tell she never had enough attention as a child and craved for it now as an immature adult. In reality, I may sound like have some hatred against her but I dont at all. May God bless that woman. She was not the problem, my H was and his lack of manhood. He was unable to take responsibility as an H, father, and provider of this household. Oh, and yes it was not my fault. I know I did my set of incorrections in this marraige but I did not use our rocky situation to find an escape and use a male to get what I needed. I am strong enough to deal what I am lacking in myself and my H. We are together now and working it ou but DAMN it was hard after he came back with lots of triggers especially her name! which is our daughters middle name. She probably loved that. SMH. It will be changed very soon. I also had to deal with those stupid images of kissing and the sex. WOW! it eally caused alot of arguments between us but he didnt give up and didnt do anything stupid except lie about he met her and found out through her. HA! Husbands FYI we find out everything so why! hide it and lie about it, be honest be a honest man, its not hard. Like I said we are together and come to a conclusion which is to BE STRONG. Dont let the OW get the best of you, she is no nobody, literally. You are his wife and he came back to you. He did not leave you for her. So be strong. We women forget that because we devote our entire energy to our husbands and family needs that we are strong women, but no more. Lets show our Hs that we are strong independent women and we will not be walked all over. I have noticed that once we as wives put our foot down they come back crying BOO HOO so sorry honey. Just to show, we have the power and we forget that sometimes because we are willing to make them happy at all cost. But ladies lets show them that we dont need it or them if they dont shape up. You will see a difference. I sure did with my situation. Therapist agreed with my change of personality as well. I am also working it out with my H and have to to realize that this OW will not get the best of me!. She has made me show my H and her at times how weak I can be but now that he came back to ME. I have to show she did not WIN!. The other OWs can say what they want, do what they want but the if your H comes back to you is because you WON and because you are his wife and the mother of his children and deserve respect with love and honesty. (Unless he cheats repeatedly and gets her pregnant, thats a dealbreaker for me). Sorry ladies (OWs) I dont hate you or blame you, you are your own problem, not mine. My husband is my problem and I will be by his side to help him be who can be for his sake, not mine. I know we cant trust them now. SO I will admit I have added an app to his phone which is invisible, so he cannot locate it, and I can see every text, call history, GPS location. I know this sounds like too much but If I cant trust him now by him telling me “trust me I wont do it again” then I will have to do it my way. Eventually when I fully see there no more of the same old BS it will be removed. I just need to be seeing it for myself, evidence. Anyways we are working it out for now and is going good. We are taking it day by day and know from each other that we still have alot of love for each other. But I know if he chooses to lie and cheat again its because he made another wrong choice and our marriage will be no more. I gave a second chance but do not give a third. It will be unacceptable to me and will not put our daughter through it again or myself.

  123. Just thought of a story I’d like to share with everyone that might actually bring a smile to your face! I have a neighbor whose ‘ex’ married the OW and after X-number of years (I don’t really recall how long they have been divorced or how long he has been remarried), but one day my neighbor got a call from the OW/new wife and the woman wanted to know if she could come live with my neighbor because she had realized what an asshole HE was!!!!! Not that I would ever take a call from the little slut that my ‘ex’ married, but just the fact that after this woman stole the married man, thinking she had found her “Knight in shining armor”, then reality ‘reared it’s ugly head’ (as it ALWAYS does), and she realized what she had gotten herself into! I truly wonder how often this actually happens…..I hope it happens A LOT!!!!!

  124. Sylvia, You got it right. My husband is sorry for hurting me but I had him come to this site and read some of the stories because I was so overwhelmed with all the thoughts and emotions swirling around in my head and hurting my heart that I just couldn’t express it . If he ever needs clarification I’m refereing him to what you wrote. Thanks for putting it into words. Anormalman, true many people can and should gain a new perspective on realationships but marriage is not about ones perspective but a commitment, a pact or in terms you may find more understandable a contract and one with very specific clauses that we all know about and understand when we enter into it. It is not always easy to honor a contract but that is what you signed on for so you have an obligation to honor said “agreement” .If you cannot maybe you should not commit to such a agreement. Also not all or dare I say many of the cheaters both men and women are particularly successful, handsome or testosterone driven males but flawed humanbeings who for some reason crave validation from those who are not really relevant in their lives. They are truly kind of sad and pitiful and often have become addicted to porn or some other cheap thrill. I think you need to see yourself through anothers eyes.Are you really ANORMAL MAN or just an AVERAGEMAN with a huge ego? Sorry if this seems cruel but you really need to take a new look and try to see what others see for a change. I do wish you and your significant other the best of luck, I think you’ll need it.

  125. Thank you Gimlet. I hope that your husband can truly understand and take responsibility for the hurt he has caused you. I am so sorry that you’re in this position too. 🙁

    Anormalman – something occurred to me as I was rereading the posts. You mentioned that you talked to your wife again about her lack of sex drive, and you said she “does what she always does, takes it really personally and thinks I am telling her I don’t like her. Then, I explain (for the millionth time) that it is precisely the opposite, I love her and want her.” It sounds like your wife might feel low self-esteem sometimes, or perhaps feels like she’s not “enough” for you. To me, this isn’t something to be underestimated. Self esteem is something that spreads into all parts of your life, and I think it has a huge impact in the bedroom. Is it possible that your wife feels self-conscious or anxious when you two make love? Has she told you what turns her on? Does she worry when you have sex that she’s not doing enough for you? Are there times when she wants to initiate but doesn’t know how or worries it won’t be received well? Does she feel beautiful? Does she wish you two talked more and had some romantic overtures as part of foreplay? Does she feel like there’s an unequal balance of power in the marriage since you work and are the “breadwinner”? Does sex feel like an obligation rather than a celebration to her? I could ask a million questions, and I apologized if you have already answered this. I ask these questions for clarity, not to offend. But to me, this is something that you can absolutely work on together. A lot of people (not just women) have trouble expressing themselves sexually or feeling comfortable with their partners, and it is absolutely something to address as a couple. I know I’ve been feeling more self-conscious lately, and for me it’s because I can’t help but wonder if he’s picturing someone else when we’re intimate (he talks about “hot” or “bombshell” women a lot, and he’s never called me hot or a bombshell or sexy or… – so I feel “not good enough” frequently. It’s finally taking its toll on my libido. He could change that so easily if he just said I was sexy or desirable). Again, you never know why it might be hard for some people. You might find the solution is easier than you think! Good luck anormalman and wife!

  126. Sylvia you have really hit on something I had almost no interest in sex. I thought it’s from all the kids,I’ve gained weight I feel like I’m being used maybe it’s hormonal from the hysterectomy. Well it could have been a little of all of those things but since my husband has really been talking to me and I feel valued again our sex has been better than it was since even before me got married 14 years ago. Making someone feel special is a very powerful aphrodesiac. Find out what your partner needs the payoff is great for both of you. One thing I forgot to mention is that I even tried talking to three different doctors about my low libido and they were very dismisive only one tried perscribing a hormone replacement with a small amount of testosterone and when I told him it didn’t really help he said I quote ” It’s very nice of you to be concerned for your husbands dissappointment but he’ll be fine.” It is very difficult for most of us women to have these discussions with our doctors and it is a shame they dismiss them so easily. When my husband went to the doctor he got Cialis in the blink of an eye.Well just had to get that off my chest/. I really did want to satisfy my husband ,as it turns out all he needed to do was satisfy my need to feel that I am appreciated and desirable in more ways than sexually. Most of us wives do care about our husbands needs and very much and enjoy pleasing them. If only they would realize that and take a little time to find out what she needs I think they would be very happy indeed.

  127. Still Grieving

    I have to agree with this. At the time my husband cheated on me, I was making more money than he was and had just purchased our second house. I was so proud of everything he did. Every raise, every promotion, everything. I never questioned where he spent our money and i realize now he was using me.
    She was the wife of a friend of ours. A woman everyone made fun of, our friends family didn’t want them getting married b/c she was such a loser. I was the only one of our friends who was nice to her. She had 2 children from 2 previous relationships (my husband and I had no children at the time). Our friend was a short and unattractive guy (my husband is very attractive though at the time had just begun balding). She had no education (I have a bachelor’s degree). She never had a steady job just child support (I was making close to six figures at the time). She had come from a “backwoods” upbringing (my father is a doctor and we have lived around the world). She was not really attractive and I have been compared to Kim Kardashian…
    But what did she have???

    Time… time to listen to how awful i was… time to revel in all his sexual fantasies… time to giggle at his jokes… time to invite him over for lunch…

    I begged him at the time to talk to me… I was going to fertility appointments alone… I was working like a dog for our future.

    But she made him feel better about himself… b/c i was just showing him all the things he hadn’t accomplished… This disgusting woman who let baby #3 rot infront of the television b/c she was to busy emailing my husband.

    I was clearly the better woman but Mr. Self-Centered wanted someone to tell him how great he was… not be proud of the woman standing next to him…

  128. Hey ladies,

    Gimlet: marriage was originally a financial contract between wealthy families for the protection of assets. It was an typically arranged and cheating was rampant as both participants found love and romance elsewhere. You can see this continuing in royal and wealthy families today. Interestingly, my marriage vows made no reference to exclusivity as they are came from a religion that celebrated polygamy in the past, so now that I think about it, I have not contractually signed up for monogamy – lol. The whole “but you signed a contract and you need to honor it” is drivel – people that are in their early 20’s getting married are still forming opinions about the world and changing your mind in life is OK. Contracts are amended, changed, etc. in the business world all the time so that both parties continue to get what they need. And in some cases, when circumstances have changed, it is sometimes best to cancel the contract and pay the other party the remaining balance. Since most ppl don’t want to change their marriage contact to make things work better, they end up canceling it and paying out the other party.

    As for being average, fine I’m average. The huge ego thing? I’m just another guy trying to make my way in this world. I didn’t ever mention anything about being better than another. Not sure where these comments are coming from.

    To answer the questions posed to me:

    Is it possible that your wife feels self-conscious or anxious when you two make love? I don’t think so, she has 2-3 orgasms when we make love and is very comfortable with her body. She gets lots of compliments on how she looks from men and women and her nickname is “hot (insert her name)”.

    Has she told you what turns her on? Yes. Like I said, the sex is good for her.

    Does she worry when you have sex that she’s not doing enough for you? idk, maybe but since I always cum, I don’t think so. I think she is fine with me taking the lead during sex and her just taking what I have to give – that is how it seems anyway.

    Are there times when she wants to initiate but doesn’t know how or worries it won’t be received well? No!

    Does she feel beautiful? Yes. No problems there. She is confident in this area of her life.

    Does she wish you two talked more and had some romantic overtures as part of foreplay? It’s weird, she doesn’t like kissing a whole bunch but likes to move right to intercourse – sometimes I start massaging her and she says “no, lets do that later” and we get right down to business – weird I know. I think I like foreplay more than her. We talk a lot, she hasn’t complained about his really.

    Does she feel like there’s an unequal balance of power in the marriage since you work and are the “breadwinner”? Yes – but what does that have to do with me? This drives me MENTAL. I have provided every opportunity for her to go “back to school”. When she does, she studies things that interest her, but that won’t make any money. So one minute she moans to me about how she wants independence and the next minute it’s “well paid jobs are boring, I’m just not interested”. So now, I am completely hands off on this. She has funds and time at her disposal to get whatever education she wants – she perpetuates the unequal balance by not taking action, when she has my full support for self improvement. I am so sick of talking about this with her, she needs to take initiative for her life without my involvement. But I think she secretly loves being taken care of. In short, this bothers her, but she doesn’t have the self confidence to do much about it (she is not very academic, her own words). I can’t fix this (nor will I try) this is her issue and she needs to figure it out.

    Does sex feel like an obligation rather than a celebration to her? idk, she is confusing here. She feels like it is an obligation at times, like me and the kids want a piece of her and she has nothing left to give. Yet, when she gives in she still has orgasms (?). It annoys me that she sees time with me as an obligation. Men could say the same stupid and hurtful stuff like “my clients and my boss are always asking me to do things and now your asking me to do more things when I come home” but hey, that sounds like a man being whiny so I don’t go there. I have offered to hire help but she doesn’t want it. At least she finally booked herself into the spa, hopefully she’ll feel more relaxed.

    I travel a fair bit and honestly when I’m away I fantasize about having sex with her. I don’t wish she was someone else, if I wanted someone else I would leave and get someone else. She knows I’m into her sexually.

  129. Hi Anormal man:

    I read your response to me and others here.

    It seems as if you have a lot of repressed hostility toward your wife. You mention a lack of foreplay, desire to kiss on her part, not yours. You talk about her refusal to work.

    You also seem as if by mentioning how you treat her so well you appear to have a sense of entitlement to have an affair.

    All of these things are not healthy.

    Study after study shows that the person in a marriage who seeks an affair is often heavy on narcissistic traits such as a sense of entitlement to go outside the boundaries of what is moral in a marriage. Some abusive spouse are malignant and dangerous narcissists.

    Study after study shows that although spouses who have affairs often complain bitterly about the betrayed spouse, the betrayed spouse is often giving far more in the marriage than is the cheater.

    In addition, the cheater often rewrites the marital history to demonize a good spouse in order to resolve their own internal conflict about the fact that what they are doing they know to be wrong and harmful.

    Blamers in marital conflict are known to have far more issues than a spouse who is willing to see their own part in any dispute.

    Rough patches in any marriage, other than a decision to cheat, is never attributable to one spouse. When a marriage hits a rough patch, both spouses are to blame.

    Your response seems to indicate that you are all too willing to put all the blame on the “other spouse” for the rough patch.

    Delude yourself if you must to resolve your cognitive dissonance and compartmentalization and male chauvinism. Still I sense you know what you are doing is wrong.

    If you love your wife, and I sense you do, stop focusing on the negative and start working on the marriage instead of fantasizing about talking to other neglected woman as you so obviously are neglecting your own wife.

    My husband initially blamed me for everything. He rewrote the marital history initially to make me out to be a monster wife. The psychologist finally pointe this out as he often made contradictory statements that indicated that even he knew on an unconscious level he was rewriting history to justify his cheating.

    He desperately wanted things to work out for us. So did I, but as I said I never felt special to him again. Every time he winked at me i thought did he do this with her. every time we made love I wondered if he was thinking of her. Every time, he told me I was beautiful, i know he told her the same because his lover sent me the emails he wrote to her.

    I could not move past it.

    I think also that everything happens for a reason, too. After divorcing my husband I met a wonderful man. He is gentle and kind and his wife cheated on him, too. He know the pain of it and would never do it as I would never cheat on a spouse. I am in love, feel very special with him and I am so happy. We will be married soon.

    My former wayward spouse is miserable. He has dated a series of younger woman the same age as his lover and they have all cheated on him because quite frankly, he is much older than they and is having difficulty keeping up with young girls in the sexual arena.

    In fact the marriage counselor mentioned that often men cheat when their sexuality wanes because they are super excited by sex with a strange person and it seems that at least temporarily their nether parts work better. Once the thrill wears off however, they have difficulty again, and the younger woman loses interest.

    He has begged me to remarry him. I actually feel sorry for him. He is lost and vulnerable, but I am not so stupid as to take him back.

    He changed the rules of our marriage, not me.

    In any case, I hope you wake up before it is too late.

    In the USA because we were married for so long, I got half of everything plus some because he cheated as well as permanent alimony until I remarry or win the lottery.

    I am a former model and have relocated to an area close to NYC so that I can make a new career in commercials. It is working out well because my fiancé is so supportive.

    My former husband, used to get angry when I talked of going into commercials. He was jealous perhaps or threatened. Oh well.

    Good luck to you and here’s hoping you wake up soon

  130. ess from USA, I could not have said it better. What you described is what is happening in my life. My husband (soon to be ex, I decided to start the process of filing) blamed me, the marriage and completely re-wrote our marital history to justify his behavior and affair. It should be our 25th wedding anniversary this June. Eleven months from D-Day he is just starting to acknowledge that he might have been responsible for his choices and behavior. Well it is too late for me now. When I look back at what I have had to endure, listen too and even what the other woman did to me, I have no idea how I kept sane. What it did was make me really look at me and what I want. I have grown so much, worked hard on my healing, putting myself first and learned so much about myself, I am happy, fun loving, enjoy life and I am not depressed. My husband even accused me of depression, well he is the one who has exhibited depression symptoms for years, but of course that was my fault too. We are separated and now I do not want him home. Well what I don’t want is my husband, not the man he had been and certainly not the man he has become.

    I know my husband will be shocked by my decision as he is afraid of loosing me and he is afraid someone else will snatch me up. Well that might have happened, I met an amazing man by chance just about 3 weeks ago. We have a connection and don’t see each other often because he respects my position in my marriage and I needed to still sort thought my feelings and what I wanted to do. This man is kind, honest, sincere, caring, a gentleman and is not pushing anything. We are going to start seeing each other more now and it feels absolutely right. I have spent the last 2 1/2 years alone and I believe things happen for a reason and that reason was the right man was out there, I was just not married to him.

    So I do agree with you in that I hope anormalman can wake up before he ruins probably the best thing in his life, his wife, family and marriage. I know my husband has already said to me that he is sure he is making the biggest mistake of his life by not trying to work through his issues and on our marriage. I stopped asking him to attend Couples Therapy with me, now I will go alone and take our boys for family therapy. I want to show my boys I am strong, independent and also it is ok to get help.

    Congratulations ess from USA, your life sounds wonderful. They say we have these journeys for a reason and now I do see my reason.

  131. wow, just wow.

    I guess all the positive things I mentioned about my wife whizzed right over the head of dearest ess, to whom the rest of this post is directed.

    I don’t care if my wife works – at all. What I care about is that she is happy. SHE is the one who cares about working but is so ambivalent about it. Her inability to make a decision is annoying but that really has nothing to do with me liking other women. I just answered a question posed to me.

    I am not looking for an excuse to cheat. Nothing my wife has done (or not done) justifies cheating. If I cheat, it’s because I made a decision, it is not my wife’s fault. I’m accountable for my own actions.

    You haven’t read my posts very closely (which is fine) because if you did, then you would have realized I already made reference to this website being a collection of one sided stories. If my wife was on here, she could come up with numerous examples of my irritating flaws and she would be right. Everyone in a marriage has grounds for divorce. Interestingly, you also did the same – you listed a few negative traits about your husband but comments on your own are notably absent. And you went for the lowest blow, posting about his flagging sexual prowess.

    No ess, the point I was making from the get go is that marriage in it’s current form doesn’t seem to work well. Many men (myself included) find monogamy boring. My wife’s personality traits have nothing to do with that.

    you said: “Delude yourself if you must to resolve your cognitive dissonance and compartmentalization and male chauvinism. Still I sense you know what you are doing is wrong”.

    Really, really good effort on the quasi-intellectual slam. I find it interesting that you are somehow qualified to make these sweeping judgements about me. Are you God? Male chauvinism – no one in my real life would ever call me that. You know nothing about me.

    One thing I have never done is insult or make gargantuan negative assumptions about anyone on this website.

    I’ll stop there and wish all the best in your new relationship and modelling/television career.

  132. Jules:

    I am sorry that you have a husband who cheated on you, but I am glad you have found yourself. IMO, happiness comes only from within. Other people can’t make us happy.

    A normal man:

    Seems like I hit a nerve. Perhaps individual counseling will help you see yourself better. I was not slamming you or judging you. I was giving you my take on what screams through between the lines in your post.

    Take or leave. But I see that you are very conflicted and I do sense that you love your wife and don’t want to lose her.

    No one is perfect not you, not me, not your wife. That’s just the truth. Loving someone warts and all is what marriage is about, but it’s also about a commitment to be exclusive sexually with one person

    A commitment takes courage and patience. Not to mention that you going outside the marriage for sex puts your wife at for a disease. Some STD’s can go through condoms such as some very small viruses, etc.

    Also, your wife gets none of the pleasure of having perennial first date sex with a new person. She gets only a lifelong disease. Do you ever think about that?

    Also, you seem to have missed the part in my post where I noted that rough patches in a marriage are usually caused by both parties.

    As for the sexual slam you allude to. It isn’t a slam. It’s a biological fact. As a man ages his ability to become erect diminishes when they reach testapause. Testosterone supplements do not always fix this.

    That is why they have drugs like viagra and cialis for older guys. It is also quite obvious that a woman 25 years younger than a man might want a guy that actually has an erect penis at least two to three times a week, maybe more. I think older men lusting after younger woman need to note this fact.

    When you state many men find monogamy boring, you say it all. Do you not think that woman may find monogamy boring?

    Marriage is a commitment to stay faithful. Otherwise why get married. Marriage is a choice, it’s not mandated by law, last time I checked.

    Thank you for wishing me the best in my new relationship and career.

    I really do wish the best for you, too, and that is why I am warning you that an affair will ruin your marriage in one way or another. If only that your wife will never be able to look at you with adoring eyes, if she finds out.

  133. i dont understand why people who want to cheat bother getting married. If you wanna sleep around, do so. There’s nothing wrong with it. (unless you believe in the Bible’s prohibitions against fornication.) For non-Christians, go sleep with the whole town if you wish. But why bother getting married and decieving someone into thinking you’re faithful when really you’re not. Most cheating men want to remain married, not because they love their wife, but because they love the stability and comfort of a home and constant partner. Probably they love not paying alimony and child support too. They love not losing out on the big investment of a home. They love having dinner on the table, laundry done, someone consistent in their life, all that. No one who loves their wife would cheat on her. It’s so obvious. Why is this even a discussion. Cheating is such a betrayal. You dont betray people you love. You dont betray your children. Well some do, but they’re scum. People who want the benefits of marriage should find someone who AGREES to an open marriage, one of those swinger type things where they both have sex with other people. Hiding something that big from your spouse is just shady. Why get married. Yes monogamy is super boring and divorce is a big hassle, that’s why i’m never getting married. It’s like having kids and then bitching about how much work it is. then dont have kids. that thing that guy said about contracts being changed all the time-usually the other party is notified that the contract is being changed. It doesn’t sound like he told his wife he was changing the contract. She might opt out of the contract if she knew the new terms.

  134. i dont know how to post it because i’m not good at computer stuff, but i saw a good article, you go to google and type “8 reasons why i will never cheat on my wife” by Paul Carrick Brunson. It tells the difference between cheaters and non-cheaters.

  135. juliet (obviously from the USA)

    Righteous men in the bible disliked monogamy too (Abraham, Issac, Jacob, etc.). Christianity is full of good men who had sex with more than one woman at the same time. But let me guess, you don’t count them as Christain right, because they are from the old testament? What does the bible have to do with this?

    I don’t think many of the world’s 1 BILLION muslims would appreciate your comment “For non-Christians, go sleep with the whole town if you wish”. I guess christianity has the market cornered for righteousness?

    And in true religous fashion you have judged the sinners, the flawed. I seem to remember your Christ himself writing in the dirt when the woman was taken in adultery and said “he who hath no sin among you, let him cast the first stone”.

    “Most cheating men want to remain married, not because they love their wife, but because they love the stability and comfort of a home and constant partner” Really? Are you a man who has loved two women at the same time? How would you know?

    You have not been married nor walked a mile in any of our shoes. But hey, keep up the judging and speculation. Have you ever lied to someone? Told them something that wasn’t true so you didn’t hurt their feelings? Cheating is the same thing. All of us lie – every single one.

    I do agree, the lying is the annoying part of it. It’s just the truth is too difficult for most people to bear. The number of people who cheat across the world should be about 1 billion or so people. This huge number of people still has a contribution to make, still loves their children and often still loves their spouse. Many of the most successful people who make big contributions are the most likely to cheat. We have to find a better way to make marriage work – the stats clearly show it doesn’t. Would you fly in a plane that had a 30% chance of crashing? Climb a staircase with a 40% chance of failing? These are marriage statistics in some countries. Why are we so naieve to think these things can’t happen to us?

    We have to find a better way. We need to raise our children to understand that marriage isn’t the only option, or even the preferred one. Western societies have laws to protect children from being left without resources (alimony) so with that legal framework in place, why do we need marriage? We don’t and that is why it’s on the decline because ppl are slowly figuring it out.

  136. Here is the link to the article, very good and very true.


    Cheaters have not grown up, I laughed because this is so my husband who I am divorcing soon and he has not idea yet. Going to financially hurt him but hey, I gave him 28 years and I am owed. He could have chosen a different path other than lying, cheating, giving me an STD, etc….. Choices have consequences.

    Oh, even our 3 adult sons say their father is very emotionally immature and the middle one has said it to his face, he is the only son talking to their father right now. Our oldest said Dad was always so hard on us to do the right thing and now look at him, I have no respect for him and I am not sure if I can have a relationship with him, I am too angry and hurt”. This son has also decided his Father is not welcome at his wedding. I am staying out of it and have tried to talk to our son but the hurt is too raw and these are his choices. His Dad does not even try to call and talk to him, very selfish man.


  137. A normal man:

    I say this with concern and caring. Stop making excuses for your desire to cheat, if you are at all concerned about how your wife sees you in the future or after learning that you cheated.

    It is very common for the other woman to our her affair partner. It’s a conquest to some of them. and others simply like to boast about the conquest because it gives their weak egos an ego boost.

    The sad fact is the You could have chosen a partner who agreed to an open marriage. In the USA they call it THE LIFESTYLE. At least than your wife goes into the marriage with her eyes wide open and she gets to have some perennial first date fun and newly sex, too.

    You know the type of date you had with your wife at first, where you are both highly powdered and perfumed and perfectly coifed for your once or twice weekly date. In an affair it’s even less complicated than a real relationship. The affair partners meet for a once or twice weekly tryst, free of only the mundane details of a real relationship. It’s all fun and games. A fantasy free of any and all responsibilities.

    See the real issue is that some men want to cheat but they hate the idea of being cuckolded by their wife.

    When the marriage counselor asked my husband how he would feel if I were the cheater his knee jerk response was “whoa, no I wouldn’t like that. Of course not. There is nothing that will make a person feel less special to someone than to have them go boff someone else’s wife or some stupid single woman that hasn’t enough pride or morality to say “no” to a married man.

    Do I sound angrily. Yes I do. There are all kinds of diseases I could have caught from my greedy straying husband. I am just lucky I didn’t because the women he was cheating with had cheated numerous times on her own very sweet oblivious husband.

    Her husband treated her like a princess. She had maids and cooks and new cars and spa trips, while he worked his butt off to earn a living for her and their kids.

    Meanwhile here she is cheating and quite obviously, based on the emails she herself sent me, looking to replace her husband with someone she felt she deserved. This woman had a really high opinion of herself, too, even though she really is not very attractive except in her own fantasy. She is highly sexed and very openly seductive.

    Obviously my ex husband would have never met her criteria for marriage because I didn’t have maids and cooks while married to him. I was the maid and cook. I was the one who spoiled and pampered him, like a fool and was very careful with my spending so he would not have to work overtime.

    At first, while he was in the demonizing of the spouse phase to justify his character disordered behavior, he told me, I neglected him. Even the marriage counselor later pointed out that based on our history together, that was obviously and trumped up charge.

    My ex was better looking than his lover’s husband, but that was the only criteria he met that would please her. She was using him as a sex toy. Indeed after he broke it off, he learned that she was screwing at least four other guys while seeing him, most were good looking and wealthy. He was devastated when he found out he wasn’t the only one.

    She seemed to take great pleasure in breaking up marriages. It was like a game. The fact that my husband could even consider sticking his wick into such a wicked self absorbed woman eventually disgusted me beyond words. I totally lost respect for him.

    I still feel sorry for him though, and believe or not, I still feel love for him. But it’s a pitying kind of love.

    And, please stop insisting that only USA women are appalled by cheaters. All wives are. In some countries they are simply to subjugated to protest openly.

  138. You are really generalising here. Not all men cheat with a woman who does not have it together. As a matter of fact, sometimes a man cheats with a woman who is in several aspects better than his own wife, and his own wife puts up with a lot more crap than the OW does.

    Let me tell you a bit about my story. I was the OW. And before you all jump on me, I was the OW without knowing I was the OW. If I was interested in married men I would not have waited until my forties to get involved with one, would I?

    I found myself in an affair because the man I had the affair with was a very good liar who managed to convince me that he was in the process of divorcing his wife. Now I normally would not date a man who is not yet divorced but this man used the fact that he has a disabled child as an excuse. He knew exactly what to do and to say to convince me that he really loved me and that we had a future together. The old saying that women can fake an orgasm and men a whole relationship definitely applied here.

    Anyway, I found out what a liar he was, told his wife about it and showed her proof of it (otherwise he would have lied his way out of it) and cut him completely out of my life.

    But speaking about having your life together and the OW being so much less than the wife:

    – the wife, the cheater and me all had the same age
    – I have a better education than the wife and I am financially independent. The wife hardly ever worked in her life.
    – I am slim and in good shape, the wife struggles with her weight and is on AD
    – When I found out about the lies, I kicked the cheater out of my life whereas the wife blamed me for his cheating and did the textbook “Stand by your man” act the way Hillary Clinton would have done it. She made her husband and family move to another country thinking that if only he and I would not be working in the same city anymore, all danger would be gone. The danger is not gone because the problem is not me and other OW but her husband himself!

    I will tell more about this affair in another topic because I have had the privilege to witness how a cheater functions and I really think that if your husband has cheated once, he will do it again.

  139. Hi Walk ITP:

    Your situation is somewhat different if you truly believed he was divorcing his wife. Sometimes, people already can see that this is not true but continue anyway.

    Was this man still living with his wife rather than separated, then that is a major clue he was not being honest with you and you were not being honest with yourself.

    As for the who is the better person, wife or OW, of course every situation is different. Still the majority of studies show that the wife is often a better person (obviously morally she is) and in many other ways as well as looks. As mentioned their are always exceptions. Then, too, men often cheat with women that are much younger and those women have youth on their side, but often the bloom of youth fades quickly for them. Karma perhaps?

    Men cheat for different reasons that do women according to all studies. Men cheat for sex, to see if they still have it, flattery from a younger woman, etc.

    The OW for example told my husband he was rare and wonderful and had no faults. Come on, what a crock. Maybe in the fantasy of a once a week sex tryst that was true, but never in the real world. Everyone has faults. Marriage takes work and commitment.

    Also, rarely do the cheating men even want to leave their wife for the OW and when they do in the rare 3 percent of cases, almost 90 percent of those marriages end in divorce.

    I have decided to divorce my cheating spouse. Still, I do believe it is possible for a man to cheat once and never do it again. My ex and I had been to three marriage counselors all of whom have practiced for 25 to 30 years each, and based on their experience a marriage can be better after an affair is outed, according to all of them.

    Personally, i do think my marriage was better after the OW outed my husband. Still, I just didn’t want to move past his behavior. I felt I deserved better and after reading all the nasty things he told the OW about me, all of which were exaggerated to justify his behavior, I figured he deserved to be set free from me since he thought I was such a terrible wife.

    The affair is often outed by the desperate other woman hoping to drive a wedge between the couple. It rarely works, as you can see in your case. It may well break up the marriage, but not in a way that pushes him to marry the OW.

    The OW outed my husband but I was seeing changes in his behavior that would have made me suspicious had she not called and forward their emails to me. I was attributing it to work stress, but that would only have lasted so long on my part.

    I am not sure what your point is in insisting that all straying spouses will cheat again. You are not an expert, based on your one affair, and the experts do not agree.

    There are woman here who want to work things out with their spouse and need to heal.

    In any case, I do think, had I stayed with my ex husband he would have remained faithful. His cheating however took away my feeling of being special to him, and I could not move past that.

    I also think he has learned a valuable lesson by my leaving and his next wife will reap the rewards of that lesson as i am sure he will never cheat again. The price he paid was too high.

    He desperately wants to get back together. But I was too disgusted by his behavior and the woman of low moral character he chose. She was not very good looking BTW. Even my husband has said that many times. She was just easy and he was opportunistic.

    He is miserable now and has been since the divorce. I do feel love for him, and hate that he is so unhappy, but it is an unhappiness brought on by him changing the rules of our marriage.

  140. To Ess:

    You said: “The affair is often outed by the desperate other woman hoping to drive a wedge between the couple. It rarely works, as you can see in your case. ”

    Ess, I have not outed the affair hoping to drive a wedge between them. As far as I am concerned, they totally deserve each other. As a matter of fact I outed the affair for a number of other reasons:
    – Because I was so angry about the way he had played with my feelings, this was my way of getting back at him.
    – Because I was not willing to let him have a quiet life with his wife without her knowing everything he had done behind her back.
    – Because by outing the affair his wife will never be able to see him the way she saw him before. Things will never be the same. She might stay with him but his affairs will cast a shadow.

    By the time I outed him I was totally through with him. Had I not outed the affair and just broken up with him, I would have suffered a lot because of what he did to me and his life would just run its course. I still suffered but he suffered as well because I know that she gave him hell. So the situation was more balanced.
    I never expected her to leave him because she’s the Hillary type. He already cheated on her before they got married, he once left her for another woman and afterwards he cheated again. So it’s hard for me to feel pity for her. She’s the kind of woman who operates according to the “He’s a cheater but it is my cheater.”

    I am however very angry that when I outed the affair she was blaming everything on me despite all the proof she received from me which clearly showed how he had totally misled me. Because of that I have no respect at all for this woman. He tried to get in contact with me again afterwards, I could have shown her that mail but I decided not to. Since she pretends everything is the fault of the other women, why would I help this woman.

    In my opinion she thinks that he will never have the guts to leave her but I would not be too sure about that. I know stories of guys who cheated throughout the marriage and eventually leave after 30 or 40 years of marriage. The women stay because they think that by being the loyal wife the guy will never divorce but at some point some of these guys have enough of the martyr act.

    Anyway, what I have seen from that woman has only made my resolve to never ever accept cheating stronger.

  141. Hey ladies,

    ess, thanks for your post. I can understand why you are bitter. He was out having fun and you were sacrificing to keep the spending down, etc. No wonder you are pissed. I don’t get the double standard with cheaters hating being cuckolded. How could they expect anything less than equal treatment?

    You said: “And, please stop insisting that only USA women are appalled by cheaters. All wives are. In some countries they are simply to subjugated to protest openly.”

    I’m never said that anywhere and made only a vague reference to it once early on, never repeated anywhere. It was the profound ignorance about the morality of all other non-christian people that I found a little disappointingly predictable. People are hurt by lies all over the world- agreed. Yes, most women don’t have a voice or control over their lives, it’s sad.

    I think your husband was a jerk to complain to the other woman about you. The difference for me is I want my wife and another but not because she is anymore flawed than anyone else. I just want sex with more than one woman. If my wife wants sex with more than me, fine. It’s just sex to me.

    I keep hearing that I am using these things as an “excuse” to cheat. I have no “excuse” – nothing my wife does is grounds enough. Cheating would be my decision and it has nothing to do with her. No excuses.

    I just don’t agree with the conventional view on monogamy. After what many of you have been through, I figured I might find some kindred spirits here. But not so much. I have appreciated the insight into your thoughts, I have learned a lot.

  142. Hi a normalman:

    Thank you for your post and insights. Yes, you are different than my husband. I appreciate your supportive comments.

    As others have suggested perhaps you an ask your wife for an open relationship, if the thought of her sleeping with another man does not bother you.

    I did suggest to my husband that we have an open relationship so that he could understand what I felt when I thought of him sleeping with and coddling another woman.

    He refused and become very angry. I was not really interested in an open relationship, but I thought his reactions was extremely revealing,

    In any case, I just don’t want you to ruin your marriage by cheating because I know that it changes things profoundly and forever, if the wife finds out.

    BTW I am no longer bitter, I am conflicted and likely here because I do feel love for my husband. I am sad that he is so unhappy now and that he wants to get back together but I am no longer “in love” with him and could never be married to him.

    I was bitter at first, but now is see that his affair was the impetus for me to leave him and move on. If he had not cheated I would have stayed. My fiancé is so much better than my husband and I truly feel blessed to have found him.

    Good luck to you, and I do appreciate reading your posts.

  143. Been On both Sides

    I was also the other woman without my knowledge it was hard for me to escape him because he started with the I have feelings for you I had a job that kept me out of town A Lot so it was easy for him to lie to me looking back on it now I was hurt at first and His Wife followed him to my home one Day and no I am not beneath her as she is not beneath me we are both gainfully employed this Man just wanted to have his cake and eat it to I walked away that Day and never looked back changed my numbers and relocated.

    I felt so badly that I hurt another Woman it was NEVER my intention and I did tell her I was sorry and I would never disrespect her again and I meant it and I stuck with it.He told her I came on to him and she became even more angry at me I gave birth to Twins and he is not a part of their lives I do not think I can put her through that however this is NOT an excuse it is a fact I had no clue that he was married NONE yes I met his Family and no one said a word.

    As Women it is so hard for us not to JUST blame the other Woman I was even angry with both my Husband and the other Woman at first it just seemed natural for me to harbor anger and resentment towards them both I am over it now but it wasnt easy my heart aches for Women who have been hurt like this but it is not going to help by downing the other Woman remember she would not be in the picture if it wasnt for your greedy and my greedy lying ex Husband as Women we need to uplift oneanother not be down on eachother God will judge and last time I looked adultery is very much a sin

    1. Hello Been on Both Sides,

      Thank you for your comment. I do understand many women get caught with married men not knowing, it happens all the time. And I can see how one can get caught up with the lies, not realize he is married, and once you realize that he is married, continue the affair because you are so emotionally involved at that point. But you did not do that, and that is commendable.

      At the same time, there are women that love and actually seek married men, they get a thrill out of it. Or women that know a man is married and engages in a serious relationship, for years, knowing that the person is married. Either way, you are right, not my place to judge, but I do feel strongly like those type of women lack self-esteem and really are trying to get any type of validation, even if it is with a married man. Having it together has nothing to do with having a job or income, it has to do with one’s mental state. There are many rich people that do not have it together mentally.

      And yes, you may see some comments directed at the OW that are very derogatory in nature, but typically those women have experienced intense pain caused by the OW. For example, the OW calling taunting them, or sending them messages on how great the sex is with their husband, or posting facebook pics of the two of them out on the internet. The negative comments are a reflection of intense pain and frustration.

      And the wife, in your particular situation, being angry at you – she is projecting her own frustration at the situation onto you. It’s not personal even though it might seem that way. I hope a better future for you and your twins.

  144. To anormalman. I read your posts here and on the other thread about FB breaking up marriages, and to be honest, you paint quite a picture about sex outside of marriage (and I am not going to use the word “cheat” as you don’t see it that way, and I don’t mean this in a demeaning way) and technology throughout the ages. But with that said, I do want to add “my 2 cents worth.”

    First, did you know of your wife’s lack of sexual drive BEFORE you got married, for if you were having sex only 4-8 times per month then, didn’t you think that pattern would continue? We all know that we HOPE we can change a person before we get married, but in actuality, it usually doesn’t happen. And if sex is so important to you, why did you go through with the marriage UNLESS like everything you have said about her, she would be more like a “trophy wife” and help you in your career?

    Second, have you REALLY discussed why her sex drive is so low? It sounds like when you are together, the love-making is great, so she satisfies fantasies which often does not happen in marriages, hence the man straying. Have you talked about if this is a medical/hormonal/mental problem? Just wondering esp. since she seems “bored” with everything she tries and loses interest which to me is a sign of depression.

    Third, by living in France, has that added to your idea that monogamy/ adultery is perfectly acceptable? You are right that many in Europe believe having sex is just that… sex; however, there are many others who do not believe it. I know as I am in a relationship with a European man, and we have talked about it since I am with him only 6 months out of the year. We talked about trust and we both agreed that we would be devastated if one would have sex with another while we were apart. Now this may change as we are only together for 3 years, but right now, he does believe in monogamy. And I am telling you this as don’t always believe the adage “when in Rome”…or in this case France that adultery is always ok.

    And finally, if you want to cheat/commit adultery due to just wanting more sex and not different sex with different women so the thrill is NEW and it is ok with your wife, just don’t do it with the same woman continually, for I don’t care what most women say, we do bond with men when we have sex with them and that is when hurt can enter the picture as well.

  145. Hey ladies

    Still sitting on the fence. Been having some pretty good sex with my wife lately. Still can’t shake my desire for others. Wish I could fit into the “nice” husband category. I tell my wife about my feelings somewhat. She tries to understand and this makes me love her more and want to not hurt her.

    My wife and I had evenly matched desires when we first married. Hers changed. I don’t hold it against her. People change. I just wish there was an elegant way to have my primal needs met without hurting her. I love her. Monogamy is wonderful for loving relationships but terrible for interesting sex. After having sex with the same person for 11+ years it can get boring (Im sure for her too). Yet we still have good sex, orgasms for all (multiple for her at times) – just not exciting sex. And Tessa, I would love to have sex with many women without committment – God, what normal guy wouldn’t?

    I hope I can figure out life. Our world of rules and selfishness is cruel. We all want justice for others and mercy for ourselves. We place unrealistic expecations on both sexes. I’m sorry, I cannot be Mr. Rogers. Ever. I’m not that guy. But I can be a good husband and father. Ugh, this conflicted and tortured conversation must end. I really don’t believe there is a good answer. I hope you all find a man that isn’t like me to make you happy forever.

  146. @anormalman
    Sounds like you already made up your mind. file for divorce on the grounds that you think other women are going to want to fuck you, or you fuck them. Yes people change thru the years and you are holding it against your wife the your sex is boring! Hold it against yourself maybe your the one that is boring! I have been married 25yr and yes sex can be boring sometimes but change it up, do it in different places. Just because you want sex with other people doesn’t makes it ok to break of a marriage that you supposedly vowed to love to death do you part or until I want to have sex with others! As I told my husband who is 52yrs old, no 18 -20yr old is going to want to fuck you with saggy balls and a saggy butt and belly. I know because when I was 18-20 I wanted nothing but a young hot stud back then not a grandpa!!!

  147. OMG Lisa P – I’m reading this post and laughing so hard!
    @anormalman — we all want what we can’t have. That’s the intrigue. Maybe your wife is fantasizing about “the one that got away” or someone she saw on the street. It is something we don’t usually talk about. …but it’s in our minds too when we are bored at home ;). There is a 58-year old major corporate CEO in my city who was fired because he had an affair with a married 28-year old woman (an employee) and went nuts because he thought she was cheating on him (with her own husband). Seriously? She was having sex with him for the lifestyle. Did he really think she thought he was hot? Now he’s lost everything — his wife, three girls, and a brilliant career, got kicked off of boards, etc. And the company is running full-page newspaper ads to repair their image. He’s apparently devastated. So @anormalman — it’s the risk-taker in you talking. You are successful because you took risks that paid off in life – so this would be yet another challenge for you — be careful ….. be thankful.

  148. @anormalman — this is on Dr. Oz today……maybe you should get your wife this book……. many women are reading it……..
    Could This Be the Spark to Save Your Sex Life?
    It’s the book that’s heating up bedrooms across the country! It’s been called porn, erotica, and it’s way too hot for TV. Dr. Oz examines the medical case for why Fifty Shades of Grey could be the spark to save your sex life. What’s hidden in this novel that could be the key to great sex?

  149. @Ella, watching DR Oz right now. There is also a book I read along time ago that also did the same thing to women. I will try and see if I can find it again and read it and let you know the name. I am glad I made you laugh at my last remark. I am just getting tried of men taking the easy way out and blaming their wives for everything when it’s all a joint effort. If anormalman divorces his wife because he is bored and meets a OW in 10yr he will be done with the replacement women too.

  150. Ok ladies I remembered or found the books for women beside Fifty Shades of Grey. They are by Anne Rice, and it’s a sleeping beauty Trilogy. I read this in 1991 and remebering I had to have sex with my husband when I put down the book at night. I ordeedr the trilogy on Amazon today to see if this will help with our sex life today. I need more spice in my life. Unlike men I WILL NOT go outside my marriage to find someone to show me what I am missing or feeling in my sex life. ONLY a weak person will look outside their marriage to make themselves feel better.

  151. Hi ladies just thought I’d chime in as I have read some of those books and they definitely can be helpful in getting things going in the buduoir. I remember reading with my husband when we first started dating and it was great. You may want to take a look at My secret Garden and Women on Top by Nancy Friday her books are a compilation of fantasies from real women and it actually delves in to the psychology of why we have different types of fantasies which can be very helpful in letting you come to an understanding of your own sexuality as well as that of others. The only caution I have is to be aware that just like porn ,erotica can become addictive and you may find you need more and possibly too much more to achieve the thrill you are looking for. So enjoy but use with care. Just thought you might enjoy the story of how I discovered Anne Rices erotica. I was a fan of her Vampire books and came across her Beauty books while shopping in my local book store. when I got to the check out counter the Goth looking young man there started talking to me and was so impressed with my choice and excitedly raved about her books how they are his favorite and he thinks I am just awesome for recognizing her true talent. I left feeling very proud of myself and my fine literary tastes so imagine my total embarassment when I started reading my new book and realized that not only was it erotica but dealt mainly with S&M. You know it took me a year to get up the nerve to go back to the book store because I was afraid to see my friend behind the counter. I will say I’m not in to S&M but I did still find it a very exciting read.

  152. @ Gimet, I going to have to disagree with you on the subject porn and erotic novels are the same. In porn there is no emotional connection bewteen the people just get to the sex and thats it. At least with novels there is a story and some kind of emotional connection that porn doesn’t offer. We use our minds to picture the people in the story not watch what was provided for us on screen. Erotic novels plays to the woman emotions while porn just gets the man to the final ending. In novels there are connection for the lovers at different times in the story while porn is always for the man (have you noticed most men are not even in the shot when the porn is being filmed accept their penis of course). Men get numb with porn and need more and more to get excited. This has happend to my husband he can’t get it up anymore because all he wants is anal! He won’t let his mind go back to just plan old love making. So he spends most his time trying too jerking off to anal porn with 20yr something girls on it thinking he can get one of them. I also never heard of anyone claiming to be addicted to erotic novels the way porn can be addictive.

  153. Lisa P, I think maybe I didn’t say clearly what I had intended. I totally agree with you that erotica is much different and involves a story and brings in to play ones emtions and I highly reccomend them as a way to spice thing up. The use of them can help a monogomas relationship thrive and certainly your spouse will not be devastated by the discovery that you read them as the would be by discovering that you are cheating. My husband also is addicted to porn and is currently rebooting. What I was warning of is that you don’t want to become totally reliant on the use of erotica to become arroused that I suggest using them and sometimes relying on the spark of the memory from using them if need be. Any form of erotic stimulation has the chance to progress to a point at which it at the very least can become less satisfying and then may lead to things one may regret. That is all I was cautioning you about just be aware of yourself and unlike our husbands we can exercise restraint and remain faithful to our vows and not hurt our families. I have to say it is comforting to find someone else on this site that understands porn addiction and it’s side effects I had never really realized how rampant it is becoming until my it hit my home. I hope men will become aware of the dangers and at least use some restraint if they can’t or won’t stop. I have said before if they knew they might lose their manly ability to perform maybe that would scare them straight. I’m sure you know about this but if you don’t there is a site called yourbrainonporn.com that explains the addiction and recovery process which has been very helpful to my husband and I. There is also another site that my husband is using to help him but I can’t recall the name, if you are interested or more to the point if your husband is I will get the name of it from my husband and pass it on to you. It is some sort of support site for those with this particular problem. Good luck to you and I hope you understand what I was trying to say, I certainly did not mean to offend in any way. I love reading maybe we could start a book club. lol.

  154. @Gimlet, oh you could never offend me, after what my husband has done LOL. I have a thick skin now! I was just disagreeing with you on the subject of porn vs erotic that’s all. Thank god we have a site to post our thoughts and feelings without being controlled by our governement. Other countries do not have it so lucky. They can not post such things without being in some kind of danger. We are truly blessed to have had Jewels create this site.

  155. Lisa P, Glad we straightened that out and I really didn’t mean that porn and erotica are the same you won’t hurt others with erotica Iwas only saying they both have the ability to become progressive and you need to be aware of it should it start to go beyond your comfort level. Hey give Nancy Friday a look I think you’ll like it at least the books with womens fantasies. I recently ordered one she did with mens fantasies and have found a couple of them to leave me with a yuck feeling. To be fair i really haven’t read more than a couple in the book and to each their own. I was hoping to gain some male insight from reading that more than for my own enjoyment. Good luck with your husband I hope he comes to realize that he has a real problem. You take care of yourself and let him worry about himself.Bye.

  156. Hey ladies,

    Lisa P, respectfully I don’t think you read much of what I wrote. You said:

    “Yes people change thru the years and you are holding it against your wife the your sex is boring! Hold it against yourself maybe your the one that is boring! ”

    wtf??? in the 3rd sentence of my post I clearly said”I don’t hold it against her”. None of this is my wife’s “fault”. This is not about fault, it’s about different ppl with different expectations. You can’t fault ppl for the way they feel.

    And for what’s it worth, I’m 165lbs and 35 years old. I’m only interested in women roughly my age or older anyway.

    Ella: so funny that you mentioned fifty shades of grey. I bought it for my wife last week and it should be arriving soon. Very interested to see where it will go.

    I think porn and erotica are the same type of thing, they are both good. I think porn addiction is total bullshit. I know a Dr. who used to counsel ppl for it and he also now believes it’s bullshit. People with other problems use porn as an escape mechanism. It is an easy way out. They are suffering from other problems, overuse of porn is just a symptom.

    Lisa P you said:

    “Unlike men I WILL NOT go outside my marriage to find someone to show me what I am missing or feeling in my sex life. ONLY a weak person will look outside their marriage to make themselves feel better.”

    All men don’t go outside their marriage and quite frankly, you don’t have as much testosterone pumping through your veins as men do. When you have my biochemistry and my body and life experiences, maybe your statement wouldn’t seem so naive. Many people have had sex outside marriage and are not “weak” people. Spare the world your sweeping judgement.

  157. @anormalman, my quote about men going outside their marriage, is pretty much on track and proven since so many women here on this site have had it thrown in the face because their man has a high sex drive/ testosterone. So once again it’s another excuse to go outside the marriage because it in you veins. A bunch of crap if you ask me. Not all men do this but more do than don’t! About you not blaming your wife, well you sort of do, otherwise why would you be thinking of leaving the marriage, because of sex? she is not as adventureous as you. oh yeah your testosterone is the reason right! So why did you get married? It’s wasn’t because of the sex or was it? Or because you actually loved you wife. This site is for women that have been cheated on so our feelings and thoughts will and can be “angry”. So if you really have nothing to share like being hurt by a loved one to the point that you just want to die, then maybe this site is not for you. Just expressing your thoughts on how you want to do other women and your explaination of how men think doesn’t really help me and I am sure some other women. So have you discussed your thoughts with your wife instead of feeling out what other women think? She should be your main concern about everything in your life and if she isn’t then time to move on. Like you said people change and if so file for your divorce and live the life you want instead of pretending.

    Like I said before this site lets wome express their PAIN! So that’s why we are bitching about men. Like it or leave it, I will not spare the world my sweeping thoughts on marriage since I am a hell of alot older than you and have had a life time of experiences! You are still young and haven’t lived a full live yet. So you can not judge me!

    1. LisaP/Anormalman/Ella,

      I appreciate both of your perspectives, just keep in mind the tone, there are tons of sites that allow people to pull down one another just because they have a different perspectives. This is not one of those sites.

      I know it might not appear this way, but I enjoy and welcome all parties on the site, and all perspectives, as long as it is done in a respectful way. The only way any of us is going to really understand the situation is if we get inputs for all parties. This is not a man vs woman thing. I know women who have cheated on their husbands and I know men absolutely devastated by a cheating wife. It goes both ways.

      I want the OW to come to the site and explain how and why she/he felt is was helping the marriage (many OW say that). I want men that are cheating and/or thinking about cheating to come to the site, read the pain and explain what went through their mind when deciding to cheat. I want women to read the different perspectives and my hope is that by reading different perspectives, it might shine just a little bit more light into their own situation. It’s extremely hard to read a perspective that causes pain and is reflected in our own situations, but if it offers a glimmer of insight, then it is worth it.

      Ella, thanks for sharing the book, Anormalman, please update us on the book and your learnings, if it helps your marriage in any way. I want to discuss it because in discussing, it could help more marriages. Also, I see you trying to hold on and not cheat, you are trying to buy books and really not do it, and I never really thought of what goes through a man’s mind before he actually cheats. I guess I just thought they just do it. But what you are showing is that some people actually really make an effort to think about the situation before they actually do it (now not every husband does this). But my insight is widened by this, because husbands are not going to share this type of information with us, and I doubt after the fact we are going to want to hear it. My husband kept telling me that he tried to work on the marriage prior to cheating, and I didn’t see that AT ALL, but maybe in his mind, he really did think he was trying to work on the marriage before he cheated. But his trying is not my trying. But it doesn’t matter. If he thinks he has exhausted all possibilities, that is his truth and he will cheat if he feels that way. LisaP thanks for your support, and your comment about other countries not allowing such a forum made me have great appreciation and gratitude for my situation. Hugs to everyone!!

  158. LisaP:

    I understand your fiery response. My presence on this site could ignite that. I think this site is actually the best place I could go to really understand the impact of the actions that I am am considering. Thanks to Jules for permitting me to remain.

    Like Jewels said, this is not a place for men (or women) bashing. I think women are great.

    Lisa P, your perspective on marrige is appreciated. If you read my comment again, it was the sweeping judgement against men (who you implied collectively will leave a marrige for sex) that I was asking you (like Jules also did) to spare us from. Men are not all the same.

    Your life experience is appreciated. Clearly based on your age alone you have more than me – I never contested this.

    All I would ask is that you carefully read what I have said before the critique. I always welcome a logical and well presented argument. Many women here have done that and made me think deeply about my actions.

    Finally, for once and all, I am not blaming my wife for my intentions or actions. I can make the choice to stay happy and be monogamous or cheat. My state of mind is not dependent on access to sex with my wife. I take full ownership for all my actions – nothing I do is her fault.

    The blame game on the part of both sexes is futile. I really believe that if we are wired to only want sex a certain amount, then all the counselling in the world will not change that. Women are not men, so I don’t expect them to see life the way I do. That said there is almost as much variation within the sexes and between the sexes.

    So, let’s keep the fun discussions going!

  159. @anormalman, I get your feelings a little as my situation is different from some on here. I have the higher sex drive and sometimes I feel like it’s role reversal. My husband’s A was an emotional one –he wanted someone more to “talk to” — my H is overweight and feels bad about himself. Somedays I think we aren’t compatible because I’m more of a Type A — despite my husband’s success….I think he is deep down, but never portrays himself that way — it’s always “woe is me”. Gets old and he is very negative. So other women try to ” help him” and tell him how great he is. I am still attracted to him and would kill to be seduced (hence — i’m buying that book as well — for me). I’m very independent and self-supporting. Sometimes I think some men really can’t handle it. I had a great sales job – around a lot of people and he hated it. So I quit last year — now I’m sunk — lost my independence. But he loves me home and feels great because he is the provider. Am I doomed? 🙂 I’m downloading my book today.

  160. @Gimlet and LisaP and anormalman : In regards to the porn, what in your opinion constitutes “addiction” as I have been researching about it and still am not sure (but will go to the site you mentioned Gimlet). See, my man watches it maybe 4 times a week but maybe for 4-6 hours as he has no net, so they are all Dvd’s. But what brought me to this site was his “cheating” on FB joining groups that are soft porn and friending and commenting on these women who like to “show their stuff” in a sexual manner or are even almost nude, and to me that is where he is addicted. I like most porn and have no problem with it as long it is in the correct place, so that is not a problem.

    So again, what constitutes addiction do you all think as sometimes performance-wise, I see what has been mentioned in the articles I have read and what Gimlet and LisaP have mentioned, but then, too at 43, he is no longer a young stud. 🙂

  161. Tessa, Addiction is abehavior which you have trouble controling even though it is causing you difficulties. Please go to the site and you will find many interesting and enlightening facts. There are men on there that are very young and have used porn and masturbation to the point that they are unable to respond to real touch. I’m not judging or saying people shouldn’t enjoy porn if that is their thing I find it stimulating but realized years ago that it is progressive. I statred watching softcore movies with my then boyfriend and found it very stimulating. Shortly after I started watching more explicit dvds and became really turned off when my boyfriend began mentioning films that involved what I considered hurtful or demeaning scenarios. He then convinced me to go to a swingers club,fortunately I never left the bar. Well that isn’t true he got me to go to a room but when I saw the people there I was disgusted by their behavior and went back to the bar where a nice couple advised me never to do anything I was not comfotable with. Much to my boyfriends disappointment I came to see that some fantasies are often best left at that and decided that I didn’t want to watch porn for a variety of my own reasons. The issue I would be concerned with is if your boyfriend has progressed to talking with these people. What is his next ste? After a time the reward circuitry in your brain needs more stimulation to acheive the pleasure you are looking for.Reading the stories of these men and understanding how painful and humiliting their situation is to them is so sad. My husband became addicted to porn and then chat rooms and eventually had a sexual encounter and emotional affair with another woman. When the you know what hit the fan and he realized that he was about to lose his family he came to me and tried to tell me about his problem. I didn’t get it, I said so what you watch porn and masturbate all men do that, what has that got to do with this? By chance I read about the coolidge effect (somewhere on this site)and something in my mind clicked so I began to research how porn addiction works. I think years ago it probably was rare as you had to buy magazines or movies and how many could you possibly see in a short time. Today with the internet you can view any image thet pops into you head in quick succession just by googling it. These sites know this and they prey on you. Once they get you they make lots of money preying on your weakness. If you think about it in nature how likely would you come across nude people engaging in sexual acts let alone every imaginable one. It is not natural and our brains are overloaded. Anyhow back to you and your boyfriend if you think he is watching only a few hours a week I would bet he is hiding it from you he is more than likely a bit embarrassed and doesn’t wan’t a confrontation. Go to the site read and see if he fits into the criteria maybe he doesn’t. It would be smart of him to read some of the infomation so that he can monitor his own behavior. Forewaned is forearmed.Hope this helps you and your boyfriend before it’s to late and he cheats leaving you brokenhearted. All the best to you both.

  162. @Gimlet, thanks for your input. I don’t think my guy is communicating with those women nor is he watching more porn because he doesn’t have a computer or the internet (plus he is sorta naive when it comes to business and people on the net). He had the net on his Iphone but in Dec. it got wet and cannot afford another one (which is good in a way). He uses a friend’s phone to log into FB as that is where he is more addicted, I think , so he can find more of these types of women (BBW) that he has seemingly become obsessed with since he discovered that BB does NOT always mean big-breasted last July. I think too, where he lives (in Serbia) would put a lot of women off for they would either not know where it is or think all the bad things they have heard about it. And since he has hardly any money, there is no way he could go to them or entertain if they told him they would go there; plus most of these are like professional amateurs who claim they are “models” and who have hundreds/thousands of “friends”, so I think his (our) situation is different.

    I did look at the site more in depth, and the Coolidge effect makes total sense as many psychologists have noted that people who are addicted to the net, period, are losing their compassion due to Tweets and such where they are being bombarded with disasters and updates of these disasters continuously and the brain needs TIME to process what was read so then the heart can FEEL it; but with no “downtime” to do this, there is no longer any heart which is where the compassion comes into play. SO to me, the Coolidge effect is exactly the same thing. And the only area of concern with my guy is that due to porn and these BBW cyber sluts (sorry, but that is what they are to me as in reality they have low self-esteem or they wouldn’t show what they do in order to feel validated on the net for in person, more than likely, they would be snubbed), and me not being with him 6 months out of the year, he masterbates too much and has problems ejaculating the normal way.

    I don’t want to hijack this thread as really it has more to do with FB, but then too, the women whom he finds appealing fit #2 and #5 from Jewels list, although you would not believe how many40-50 year old women are “showing their stuff” as well….just not as a “business”. GRRRRR…

    Again thanks for your insight, and that website will DEFINITELY be going with me when I go to Serbia this fall.

  163. Tessa, I think you are right your boyfriend probably doesn’t have porn addiction but the info as you said can be useful. If he is masterbating to the extreme he may be desensitizing thus the performance problems. Knowledge is power and we can use the parts that apply to our situation as we see fit to help us. Isn’t it sad that these people are so pitiful that they need to get their thrills through cyberspace rather than really living and connecting with real people. It is also disgusting when some of them have no regard for the hurt they are inflicting on others. Ofcourse not all are to blame some probably are being misled and taken advantage of to some degree but they should know that people can lie so easily when they don’t have to look you in the eye. Best of luck to youand remember your partners problem is his and not a reflection of you.

  164. Dear A Normalman, You have right to your oppinion and it certainly is not my intent to try and convince you of anything. It’s great that you love your wife and seem to be trying to resist your temptation to do anything that might cause her pain. I wish my husband had been as considerate of my feelings,but here I am . I am ,my life and that of my childrens is up in the air. I do wish you would be a bit more considerate of your words on this site as we are all here as a result of our pain. You have at times made statements regarding our views on marriage and religionthat ere I feel out of line and now you are using the fact that a book published more than a decade ago doesn’t include a a diagnosis for porn addiction to say that it doesn’t exist. Well the world was thought to be flat until it was proved otherwise. To say that something that has led to actions that have hurt me and countless other so painfully is not real , is insensitive at best. As I said you have the right to believe what you will and even if I disagree with some of it I am willing to be respectful. Please do the same. I would like to say that a while back you said my comparing marriage to a contract was drivel and I was terribly insulted. Your vows may have been different from the ones my husband and I took and that is fine I’m sure they are just as meaningful as mine were. My vows did indeed include an oath to be faithful to one another for as long as we both shall live. My husband took them and I can tell you he certainly wanted and still wants me to abide by that oath. And as in any contract when you want to ammend it you should absolutely inform the other party involved before acting on any of those ammendments. I can’t see how anyone would find that unfair. Now that that is off my chest I have a couple of thoughts regarding your situation with your wife. I don’t know that they would be helpful to you but it is a female perspective so I will give it to you and you may consider it if you will. Ofcourse I don’t know your wife so this is something that I can only guess at. Fisrt I seem to recall you mentioning that you had suggested some sort of open marriage where you and she could take a lover just for the sex and your wife said she was afraid she might develop feelings and thus harm her relationship to you ,which she obviously values. That should tell you that she can’t seperate sex from emotion and is probably incapable of believing that you would be able to do the same. This is her way of letting you know that she wants you to be faithful and that she would be hurt if you took another lover. The next thing that really caught my attention was when mentioned said she doesn’t like to kiss much when you do have sex. This caught my attention because I also at times have been in relationships where I preferred not to kiss. One was because we just had different kissing styles and I really didn’t enjoy kissing him. Mind you it doesn’t mean he was a bad kisser just that we were incompatible in that area. Other times I just didnt want to share that intimacy for differing reasons sometimes I had lost interest in that person but hadn’t found a way to break things off and other times I very much cared about the person but was harboring some type of negative feeling towards them at the time that I hadn’t expressed to them for one reason or another. Like I said I don’t know if any of that can help you gain some insight into why your wife isn’t as responsive as often as you like but maybe it can help to see how another woman works. Maybe your wife is just unhappy with herself even though as you say she is beautiful . If she doesn’t feel beautiful it doesn’t matter what she sees in the mirror or what others tell her. The last thing I will say and this is not logical but it is true for many women. We want you men to understand when we are upset and know what to do to help us without having to ask. I know , I said it makes no sense but there it is.We are not ruled by logic but by our hearts. We all want to be loved and feel safe to love.Good luck to you and your wife. Now please try to “play nice”.

  165. Porn isn’t always because no one wants to have sex. My husband used it during a time when he was actively rejecting me for sex. He was using it because he lusted after the women he saw on the porn and because it gave him an addictive rush. It had nothing to do with my libido. It did, however, have the side effect of making me absolutely hate myself, to the point where I feel ashamed for wanting sex. But I’m working on that. The DSM until recently had homosexuality listed as a disorder, which it isn’t. They’re still updating. Give it time, you might eventually see porn addiction in there under sex addiction. But the jury’s still out. Heck, some couples say it enhances their relationship. Others call it cheating. Why? Because often, it involves lying and deception. It’s the lying and deception that are the true indicators of cheating in a relationship, in addition to sexual intimacy outside the relationship. jmho

  166. First I would like to thank Jewel for this site…it has offered comfort in a time of great darkness and despair.

    I have a unique perspective of the O/W and the wife as I have been both. I was working with a man for several years that I had a lot of respect for. He was having marital problems and we started spending time together because we were both lonely and I was trying to help him find ways to help make his marriage work. But when dealing with a very personal topic and vulnerable feelings, your own feelings can begin to grow to take on a life of their own. Long story short, we became intimate for several months, but I knew it wasn’t the “right’ thing to do, so I ended it. It was hard to end because I loved him then, but I felt guilt and shame, love and confusion. It wasn’t about low self esteem but a connection to another person that becomes so intense that you just want to experience it, even if another part of you knows its wrong.

    After we were split up….I found out I was pregnant. I wanted to raise the baby alone but he always professed to love me and he left his wife for me. He had to give up his business, his friends, his money, everything to be with me. I lost my job because he was my boss, and it gave us a difficult start and I believe we both carry guilt in our hearts because we are not bad people, but obviously we did a bad thing. It takes a long time to reconcile that in your own heart. I never intended to hurt anyone. I have never cheated before or after. I have also never really been able to forgive myself for my weakness. So yes, the O/W can feel bad, and it can mean more than sex. And the guilt will haunt you if you have any compassion. Also I think people need to realize, it sometimes isn’t a conscious choice, its a series of spending time together and each time the line is blurred further until you are involved in something you have no right to be.

    Now nine years together and a blended family with three sons…I find out he has been having an affair with a business colleague. I feel gutted to the core. Because we had to overcome so much to make us work, I thought we were soul mates. Some of you will read this and think “good, you deserved it. It’s just karma”. I always believed that it was “love” that brought us together and that is why I worked so hard to build us a life against so many odds and obstacles.

    But when someone has sex or an affair with a married man, they are not just doing it against the wife, they are destroying a family. And until you have one to lose, you have no idea of the cost, the price that will be paid for a couple that has children. To lose all the family history, the love you used to have, and all your hope for children’s future. The pain is breathtaking. It is like being shattered into a thousand pieces, not knowing if it is impossible to glue back together into something worth having. No one wants a liar, or a cheater. Ironically we all want the same thing. To be loved. To be cherished. To have someone and something to believe in. Instead we get betrayed by the one we loved most.

  167. The porn addiction discussion is interesting.

    One of the reasons my husband claimed to cheat was that I was not interested in sex as often as he or so he convinced himself. He claimed I thought he was no longer attractive to me. The OW made him feel attractive.

    I initially accepted this blame, but then I realized in counseling that my lowered sex drive arrived right around the time I learned he was too frequently visiting internet porn sited and masterbating.

    This made it difficult for him to orgasm when we did have sex.

    The fact that he was visiting porn sites and couldn’t orgasm when we made love was a huge turn off and made me start to question whether he was attracted to me. It also made me feel insecure.

    Note, I did not feel he was attracted to me and preferred looking a women on porn sites, yet I did not cheat.

    I really feel as if in reality I had way more reasons to cheat on him than he on me. Yet I honored my vows.

    Cheating destroys the BS and it will likely destroy most marriages.

    People say some marriages can be stronger, and I am glad for those people.

    But, I tried and could not let go of the resentments. I was a good wife and yes the marriage, like all, had ups and downs and rough spots.

    Still, I stayed faithful, asked for counseling and he refused. Instead he used our problems to have an affair.

    I think if things were perfect he still would have wanted the affair.

  168. Ess, What you describe does sound like it could have been an effect of porn addiction but you are right when you point out that we were also not satisfied in aspects of our marriages yet we remained faithful. The difference is we were not addicted to these sites and like all addictions they are progressive and lead to even more self destructive behaviors. While my husband was still interested in sex with me I did notice his physical response to me had changed. First I thoght it had something to do with medication he was on and then like you I began to doubt his attraction to me. My self esteem was and still is badly damaged from this. The sex with my husband has improved so much since he started really talking to me and refraining from watching porn but there are still side effects and they still make me insecure. I hope things continue to improve or I’m afraid I’ll never gain back my confidence completely. I hope to be one of those lucky ones to have a stronger and better marriage at the end of this chapter but as you can see from todays posts it’s still a work in progress. I notice that when my husband is actively doing things to help himself ie visiting support sites and openly communicating with me we seem to be closer and happier together but when little things make me feel he thinks were past it all and he can just act like it never happened I pull away. Like I said I can’t wait to get off this ride. Oneway or another. Thanks for all the support ladies it really helps to see other women with similar experiences and how they handled them. Maybe I’ll get up the nerve to ask my husband about the phone etc.

  169. Gimlet:

    I believe successful recovery is possible and the relationship can be better.

    In the end, I just decided that my husband had too many flaws and since he was the unfaithful one, he broke the vows and I was no longer obligated by them.

    It sounds like you still want things to work.

    Yes, the desire to move past the devastation, humiliation, distrust, loss of self esteem and mind movies and other images an affair brings into a marriage is tough, but you seem as if you want to try.

    Please don’t give up because my marriage did not work. There are many many success stories and many are of marriages that are better. I did not feel my marriage was getting better.

    I do think you both can get past this if you both want to. I do think it can bring you two closer if you both want it.

    I think your husband wants to get past this and act like it never happened because he feels so badly about it.

    But for me, just looking at my husband was a trigger. Also we tried to have children but never could and we were both okay with that.

    I think not having children now makes it easier for me to move on.

    I sometimes wonder if my body had some type of intuition of future events and refused to get pregnant because the docs could find nothing wrong with either of us.

  170. Karma, I understand very much your story. My husband was married when I met him (no children). We were just friends and eventually we too fell in love and had sex. I was so embarrassed that I didn’t even tell my very bestfriend what had happened. I broke it off at once and met my oldest son’s father. It was an awful and emotionally abusive relationship. My husband left his wife and spent a several years winning me back and helping me out of that abusive relationship. I too have wondered if those difficulties are payback for sleeping with another woman’s husband, something I never intended to let happen. I know that since my marriage I have been 100 percent faithful and my husband cheating on me has been immensely painful as I also believed he only cheated with me because he was in love. I found out later that he had cheated with another girl too. I think your honesty here may help someone else make a better decision and I hope my sorrow for my mistake will evntually be forgiven by the universe and that we will have better Karma in our futures. Good luck to you.

    1. Thanks Karma and Gimlet for sharing your story, and for your openness, it is going to help many women.

      I understand how it can happen. I have had that strong connection with someone prior to marriage and it is powerful.

      And that is why I try to welcome all perspectives in the conversation, because in reality, you never know when tables might turn in your life and you end up on a side of the conversation that you never imagined.

      I know at the time when you were initially with your husband, you had no idea how painful it would/could be to the wife, until you now have experienced it yourself. Just as the husband typically has no idea how painful it is to be cheated on.

      But, I do not believe that either you or Gimlet got this because of some sort of universal payback. We all have dirt, just different forms. There are tons of women that have never cheated before, and have cheating men as husbands. It is not because of the past.

      People can be perfect for your life for that particular time, and that season in your life. Just because they are not right for the next season does not negate the previous experience. If it doesn’t work out, does not mean it’s a bad thing. Society makes it such, but maybe for some it just means it is time to have a new season in your life, and that could be with your partner, or without your partner.

      It is essential that you work on forgiving yourself. It is my believe that the universe will forgive you to the extend that you forgive yourself. Just a wild thought, but I do believe that both of you stressed and thought about how guilty you felt about the affair, which caused those negative thoughts to be in your existence. If you are constantly thinking about how guilty you feel about it, life will meet you with circumstances that will validate your truth. So it’s not necessarily karma, it’s more a matter of validating your thoughts, which is why forgiving yourself is critical.

      Something that has helped me forgive myself for past errors in judgement is saying – I did the best I could with the knowledge and experience I had at the time. It’s the truth. We act on our currently situation. You know what your intentions were and why you did what you did. The key to forgiving yourself is did you learn and grow, and be in a position to help someone through it, and by being on this site you are doing just that.

      Karma/Gimlet, your story of affairs happening because of the strong connection is real, and I have literally avoided writing about that type of affair, but your post has been motivating for me to explore the topic more.

      When I first found out about my ex-husband’s affair, I told him, if you have a strong connection with this person, more than me, please let me know and we will talk about next steps. I said that because I knew I could not pull him from it if he had that type of connection and the cheating was not about sex, porn, fantasy, selfishness, ect. Ok, I think I have rambled enough!!

      To all the other ladies, hugs to you all, keep writing, there is healing properties in it, and at the same time, you are helping so many other women that come to the site and see themselves in you, but might not ever post – thank you!!

  171. Hey ladies, I’m back. And this time I come back to the site different than before. I’m a cheater now.

    Judging on my last posts, it’s not really a big surprise. But yet it all happened so fast……….

    So this summer my wife and I were socializing with one of her friends. She was recently divorced from a total loser. So one night I was alone with this woman and my wife was sleeping upstairs. One thing lead to another and soon I was giving her the time of her life.

    Then the full blown affair started and continues to this day.

    The sex was mindblowing. Everything I had to negotiate with my wife or my wife wouldn’t do was on the menu, she withheld NOTHING from me. I had never experienced this before, ever.

    I don’t love my mistress, but I do like the time (and the sex) I have with her. She is divorced and single. Neither of us want to start a formal new relationship. She is more than happy with the sex and gifts.

    As this affair continued, I saw my current relationship through a different lense. I realized that I had been funding my wife’s travel the world, stay at home, take whatever classes I feel like when I feel like lifestyle when all I wanted in return for that was a willing sex partner and some gratitude for letting her live in the top 1% of humanity (something that my mistress could quickly appreciate). I wasn’t getting it.

    I became blunt with my wife. I told her that even though she was so pretty and generally nice I would happily divorce her, move down the street from her, be a good father to my children but move on and find someone else who appreciated me and wanted to $%&^ more often (quality of sex was generally good). She then began to quickly change. While she wouldn’t admit to it, I believe she realized that as a woman with no marketable skills if I left her life wouldn’t be the cakewalk it is currently. She started to remember her affection and her sexual desire “improved” and consequently our relationship improved.

    When I dated and married my wife I was poor. I know she loves me for more than money (she loves me for intellect, spontaneity, successful risk taking and looks to some degree). I think my wife and I shared a soulmate type experience when we were young. I think we share it to a degree today too. A shared history of happy times is not forgotten, as least by me (nor by her either). I know that she did not start out as a gold digger. I just think she just took a life of comfort and ease for granted and had a wakeup call.

    Now that she has changed, how can I possibly know if she is sincere? She seems just like she used to be.

    Why did I have to threaten her with divorce to get her to love me the way I wanted to be loved?

    She told me she loved how I became a jerk and put her in her place. My mistress also loves it when I’m a little jerky as well. I remember in high school treating girls like an asshole and having them line up to put out. I could never really figure it out, why women love it when I am an asshole.

    So now, I have a mistress and a wife. I think I still love my wife. I know I love having wild, mindblowing sex with my mistress (the sex with my wife is almost as good too). Both are hot ladies who love banging me and I them. Yet I think I’m starting to loath them both.

    To make life even more confusing, I was on a wonderful date with my wife awhile ago. She basically admitted that although she would be hurt if I was with another woman, she would understand. At the time I appreciated her perspective. I think she honestly feels this way. I’m pretty sure she isn’t cheating on me. I know she was not cheating on me when we were having less sex than I was happy with. Did she say this because she is truly open minded? I don’t know. What the hell does this mean?

    These experiences have reinforced my world view that humans are animals. The unconsciously calculated nature of evolutionary psychology that underpins our behaviour is the explanation for all this. My wife, regardless of how she feels, will bend to my will now. Not neccesscarily because she loves me, but because I represent one of the best chances of being a provider that will not only let her offspring survive, but thrive.

    My mistress realizes this too. I have taken care of her in every way as well.

    Do I feel used? Yes and no. I don’t know of any woman who loves losers. A loser is one who cannot provide for his own and give his woman (or women) all of their hearts desires. I know that women love money and status. I have watched how women treat me differently as I have acquired more of both if these. Is that wrong? Probably not, it’s natural. In the same way I love beautiful attentive women, beautiful attentive women love successful, assholish men with a drive to kick this world’s ass on their and their children’s behalf.

    What is love? I don’t believe it exists. I think it’s biochemical signals from our brain telling us that a person will meet our biological needs and we should go for it.

    So there you have it. Hate me. Hate my wife. Hate my mistress. Hate yourself. Hate humanity.

    The deeper I look into myself and the soul of others, I realize we really are nothing other than animals.

    1. Anormalman,

      No, not really surprised that you are cheating, but very interested in how this all went down, so I am going to pick your brain.

      So, you basically started this affair off in your house while your wife was sleeping? WOW…pretty gutsy and at the same time I can understand from your perspective how that can be thought of as very seductive and sexy. You mention mind-blowing sex, I wonder if 50% of the mind-blowing part is the secrecy of the affair, doing it while the wife is sleep, the lust, the badness of it all. What makes it mind-blowing? Do you feel you can be more sexually adventurous with her vs your wife?

      You mention something else that I would like to know – you spend money on your mistress. If both of you don’t want a full out relationship, why spend money on her, why not just have sex. I am always amazing at how much money men spend on the mistress, curious to know.

      It seems like your wife has hinted she would be ok with you having an affair. I remember having a conversation with my husband around this topic because at the time I kept thinking something was going on, but had no evidence, and I needed to see what my husband was thinking around affairs. I wanted to see how open he was to the idea, and if he would tell me what is going on. My husband was confused by it as well, but to me, I was trying to get data, I knew something felt off, but had no idea he was already sleeping with someone.

      So she says she is comfortable but it also seems like you don’t want to tell her about the affair that you are having. Why? Do you think she can handle it?

      I have more questions, but that is it for now. I get your point about biochemicals and attractiveness, but I believe those biochemicals go off based off of our mental thoughts. Thus if you keep thinking about cheating on your wife, those thoughts will manifest into signals to women willing to be a mistress, and she will be presented to you.

  172. The mindblowing sex is not about the secrecy. It can be compared to eating at Mcdonalds (sex in marriage) vs. eating at a real restaurant. The menu is bigger. The other thing is that mistresses don’t often say no, where wive’s say it all the time. Many articles have been written on this on the web already. When a mistress says she’s tired, she rolls over and gives you a BJ, then goes to sleep. When your wife says she’s tired, she rolls over and goes to sleep.

    Why do men buy their mistresses things? It’s the same reason why men compete in races, play chess or do a million other things. To assert dominance, to set themselves apart from other men. Some (I think most) women love attention in the form of stuff. People work on the principle of what’s in it for me. A mistress knows you won’t be there for emotional support in the way she might want and is more willing to accept that if you buy her stuff. Nothing in life is free, sex included. Sure it may start off free but buying her stuff can be a way to manage expectations, as in don’t expect me to be there for you so here’s a bracelet cause I feel a little bad about that.

    I think you may be right about why my wife told me she would be OK with it. Although, I have left no traces of my affair ( to my knowledge) I have been different – like different in terms of voicing my unhappiness with aspects of our marriage.

    Do I wish I hadn’t have done it. In some ways. But then again, I’d still be wondering what it would be like and not have had the awakening to the extent of the problems in my own marriage. I made the choice – it’s no one’s fault.

    I’m intrigued that you didn’t comment on the shallowness of the three of us. Do you really think that most women act differently than my wife and mistress? I’m sure some might, but not the ones I know.

  173. I just read these last few posts and it’s interesting to read a man’s perspective. From what I see, this mistress is at a very low point in her life with a failed marriage — to someone who didn’t treat her very well. You do know that she is self-medicating with your “mind blowing sex” — and most likely looking for an upgrade to what she had. The mistress will become more demanding at some point….they always do and then you will have a decision to make. I remember your posts from before and what I remember is that you were a pretty successful guy, right? Money is alluring to many women. Just my opinion, but make sure that you are ok if your wife finds out — your marriage will change. It may not dissolve, but it will be different — very different. I think that monogamy is natural in the beginning — but over time, we do take each other for granted….I think that is natural as well. We get bored. It’s the newness that makes it mind-blowing…..it’s unfamiliar. Your weaknesses and flaws are not exposed at this point….for either of you….so it’s fantasy. And makes us feel good about ourselves….. It’s the age old choice — do I do what’s best for me regardless of the consequences or do I do what’s good for the family and what is more important. She has no family now, so she really won’t care and will probably take any attention. If you are just using her for sex, then no worries I guess ….. but she’s a broken soul right now — and you are taking advantage of that. And maybe she is of you (and your family’s money) ….. 🙂 If you found out your wife was having mind-blowing sex with another would that bother you at all? True – animals have instincts — but humans have the power of reason. Good luck with this — keep us posted.

  174. Anormalman, I wondered where you had gone and find your perspective on things interesting not sure if I agree but that’s okay. No hate to you,your wife or even your mistress but I would offer one caution if you don’t mind. I believe eventually your wife will find out and someone if not all of you will hurt in some way. If you don’t want your wife to hate you (at least for a little while) I would suggest finding a mistress that is not a friend or aquaintance of hers. I can say from watching that very scenario play out with close friends in the recent past it is often very ugly and the children seem to suffer from it. Just my two cents, do with it what you will or not. Best luck to you all, I think you will need it.

  175. Anormalman I have no idea why you chose that Name there is NOTHING normal about what you are doing I am happy for you that you are in the 1 percent but what happens when you lose the dominance you have and BOTH your Wife and OW both are tired of you and your BS? It is as if you are here trying to justify being a cheater I can appreciate your honesty but what I get from.your comments you seen very comfortable. You say you have kids your Wife can manage without you believe meS SHE CAN AND EVENTUALLY WILL at YOUR expense it’s called SPOUSAL AND CHILD SUPPORT one has to wonder why do you bother to stay because if you really loved your Family you would never risk hurting them for your own selfish sexual gratification as one that’s been on BOTH SIDES I can tell you both your Wife and Mistress are as sick of you as you are them. Have you ever thought that your wife doesn’t want to have sex with you because she’s no longer attracted to you? Maybe you are a bore to her as for your mistress as long as you keep money and gifts coming she will keep telling you EXACTLY what you want to hear

  176. Thanks – my wife would not at all be surprised about the other woman’s identity. In fact, I think she would be a little relieved that it wasn’t someone else because she knows that I don’t love this woman and that the attraction is mostly sexual. It’s hard to explain.

    I think if she found out it would force us to confront some issues that she knows we have in our relationship. In some ways I hope she does, not to hurt her but to let her know that no one has control over me. But really I’d like to deal with this privately, end the affair and move on. But move on to where? To what?

    Although my Irish catholic upbringing stresses confession, I believe that confession only hurts others. I beleive in suffering silently if a confession would hurt another.

    What worries me is I wonder if I really want to be in a close relationship with anyone. If life is a series of trades and transactions, then a sexual/romantic relationship is just an intense transactional relationship.

    If so, then love is a figment of our imaginations. This saddens me but the evidence that this is true is so overwhelming. I don’t know that true altruism exists anyways.

    I really don’t think this discussion and even this webpage is really about affairs and sex. I think these are the acts that reflect how we feel about ourselves, others and our place in the world. Power.

    Humanity has been trying to make sense of human relationships since we lost our webbed feet but we still haven’t figured out how to make relationships between men and women work on a large scale. Yes, they work for some, but I wonder if those in the “happy” relationships are happy becuase of naievate or ignorance. Every societies system for defining man/woman relationships fails to work for everyone in that society.

    Most of our deep thinkers, the ones who try to solve mankinds problems, end up having affairs or unconventional sexual relationships. Why?

    Is it because when you think deeply about relationships and observe them for what they really are, one realizes the nature of these relationships? Family life is that challenging that all cultures in the world embellish it as somthing wonderful when in reality it is a difficult laboratory experiment watching selfish animals interact with and try to dominate each other. Is the best method to opt for a self serving relationship to make sure you derive the maximum amount of pleasure from life?

    I love my kids – right? Do I love them because they are a part of me? If I met my daughter walking down the street and I didn’t know she was my daughter would I love her unconditionally? I doubt it – that leads me to believe that I love her only for the selfish reason that she represents my only chance of continuity. So really I don’t love my kids, I love the part of me in my kids.

    How can people, selfish as we are, possibly expect to make something like a marriage work?

    I don’t know…………..I just don’t know.

    I want to be young and dumb again.

  177. Teex

    I don’t think you read my posts closely. My wife does enjoy sex with me, she just doesn’t want it 5 times a week, only 2-3. I’ll be respectful and say that her body langugage and private behaviour seem to indicate she is into me.

    As for the mistress, the sex came first, the gifts, later. But I do agree with you it’s hard to know if women would stay with you if you were not financially successful. Who knows, you may even be the same.

    If you love a man for his intellect, does that make you shallow and him stupid for staying with you? What is the difference between money, intellect, a muscular body or some other quality as the differentiator?

    And I can tell you being in the 1% doesn’t make you any happier in the long run.

    The joy is in the struggle.

    I’m happy to pay child support if that’s what it comes to.

    But keep the judgements coming, I love a good roasting. I “deserve” it right? I mean, who cheats and then goes to a website like this expecting empathy?

  178. Wendy,

    Some interesting perspectives. Let’s say that my wife is a little bored with me but still in love. Is it fair that I should tolerate her boredom, something that would likely get worse over the years? If she really isn’t that into me, I should just stay put and not seek out the validation that I need?

    And you’re dead right about affair sex. The novelty is a huge factor and will wear off someday. If my wife had an affair and didn’t have mind blowing sex, I’d feel sorry for her as what would the point of the affair be?

    I’ve thought about your other points before, they are good points.

  179. Anormalman, I have to say I have wondered why you come here to to post as you obviously know the reaction you are likely to get. The one thing this site has taught me and most of the others here is to focus on ourselves and not so much our spouses and their motivations and actions as we can’t make choices for them. Possibly that is what you can also take away from here you seem somewhat conflicted about some things. I have noticed you mention power, exerting dominance and validation all things I recall from some of your past posts I only mention this as they seem to be worth exploring if it is an understanding of why you are making these choices. I know this journey has led to some soul searching for me and I have accepted my part in the breakdown of my marriage and the unhappiness with myself that contributed to it but what I will not accept is blame for my husbands choices those were his fault and his alone. I am happy to say we have continued to work on our marriage rediscovering the things we love about eachother. Will we stay together,who knows? For the time being I am working on me first and the marriage second and he should do the same. The last thing I would like to ask you is if you are not afraid of losing your marriage and still feel the need to cheat why not tell your wife the truth? I know I would have appreciated it from my husband he only became honest with me when he knew I was going to leave and only then was I able to see the man I once loved and became willing to try to repair things. By the way I agree with Wendy also she does make some very valid points,do what you will but please try not to harm others.

  180. Anormalman I am by no means,trying to roast you I just don’t understand why you are here is it for validation I mean did you really come here expecting any of us to understand that you are a dominant male that enjoys cheating on your Wife and that you make lots of money and that puts you in control and there is nothing your Wife can do about it because afterall where would she be without you and your money.

    As for your mistress she’s in it for what she can get the mind blowing sex YOU think you are giving her is nothing but a crock of bull she strokes your ego because it’s something in it for her.There’s a reality check for ya you are just a novelty to her my source been there done that difference is I had no clue he was married I walked away with two beautiful baby boys who are almost a Year old today he struggles to find myself and his Sons I continue to let his please fall on dead ears I raise my Sons alone you see financially I can afford to do that but what you are doing is plain hurtful and you will reap what you sow.

  181. I just have to say that Anormalman seems to me to be a very shallow human being, with his constant use of money and hot bodies as a gauge to what is most important in a relationship. I find his lack of discussion on how any of these women challenge him mentally, emotionally and spirtitually, telling. If neither of the women in his life do challenge him, why stay or does he not want a woman who is his equal in his life?

    Does he need to dominate women in order to feel good about himself? Again this is a sign of a very shallow human being. I hope both women in his life leave him and get a life with someone who respects them enough not to cheat or cheat with. Yes both women are getting the short end of the stick and need to become the strong women they are.

    1. Ladies – Some of you asked why Anormalman is on this post. I think Anormalman is here because it is a subconscious form of self-sabotage, he knows deep down he is in the wrong, he is a reflective man, and instead of facing himself in the mirror, he would rather come here and get ridiculed, almost like a sick form of punishment for his behavior. Hmm…Anormalman, is that why you wanted me to call you shallow? You also seem to like debating/discussions with those that differ from you (which is fine, as long as we can treat each other with respect), another reason why I think you are here.

      Anyways……..my goal is to understand you more, because the honest mindset of a cheater is not really discussed much. And if we do not capture the honest truth, how can we really understand what is going on from lies?

      So, Anormalman…I can see your point in buying gifts, it goes along with your theory of it being more transactional than anything, you know what you have to do to keep the affair up, sex and buying her things to keep her happy. I think deep down it is a form of payoff for not telling your wife. Have you considered that is what you are doing?

      Your mindset is not far off from most cheaters I have interacted with. So let me tell you how the rest of the plot typically unfolds….one day the OW will start to annoy you, there will be something that she does that doesn’t sit well with you, or maybe you get tired of her as well. Will it be mind-blowing 2 years from now when you mind and body get use to her? Probably not. If you think it will still be mind-blowing, please share why.

      Anyways, you get tired of her or upset and you say some things to piss her off. Now, you might not know this right now Anormalman, but the OW is keeping track of everything, she has more access to you and your wife than you know. And when she gets pissed off enough, she will try to tell your wife everything in an attempt to destroy your family. Because if you get in an argument or want to end it, over time, she is going to catch feelings, and if you try to break it off, she is going to get upset and feel used. That is when she pulled out your wife’s cell phone and shares everything in an attempt to hurt you and destroy your family. You think you know the OW, but you will see a side of her that is a little crazy. That is the way the game is played, not saying this is going to happen to you, but it is common. The other way of course is the wife finds out, which is no better, As the cheater, you are on eggshells with your wife, making sure she doesn’t find out, and on eggshells with the OW, making sure she doesn’t say anything. When do you just relax and live? Or do you like this type of lifestyle?

      That is why I originally asked about gifts, often the cheater get real comfortable with the OW, you think you know her, and slowly but surely gets access to your personal space (in your car, in your house, cell phone, ect.). If this is just about sex, why give her all the power to destroy your wife and family? Why not just go to the motel 6 and get a room, without sharing anything about you?

      So many cheaters I have interacted with give the OW so much power over them and their family. Why give her that much access? Now that you start buying her stuff, you have to maintain, or else. You might not think she has this power, but as long as the wife doesn’t know, she has all the power.

      As far as why I did not comment on the shallowness or how you are thinking? I come from a very different place, a place of hearing many stories from all sides. I have interacted with many men that have cheated, so for me personally, your thoughts are consistent with other men I have interacted with, unfortunately. They typically do not share these thoughts with others for fear of ridicule. Most of the men that have contacted me said the cheating was all about sex, they say that they love their wife, and after the fact many are mad at themselves for getting in the situation, seeing what it does to the family. I think someone wrote once your wife finds out she will never be the same wife, this is very true.

      I think many women, including myself, underestimate how much men think about sex. For men that cheat, it is typically sex-centered. For women, it is typically emotionally centered. With men, sex is a constant thought, but most men won’t say it, again, they have an image to maintain of a father, a husband. So they won’t admit there sexual lust. Many men set an intention to cheat just like you did, but will never admit it. Some start out innocent, and think they can handle the flirting/web cam/chat, ect. and get addicted.

      Yes ignorance is sometimes good, I sometimes think I know a little too much, because it can be overwhelming. But in your situation, I know you are thinking that you are protecting your wife from ‘innocence’ by not saying anything, but really, and truly, what you are doing is giving the OW the power to make or break your wife, your family, and the marriage. She can dangle that card anytime she wants and you have to bend over and take it. Yes I know you think you know her and she is fine with the set up, but what happens when she catches stronger feelings? Unless, you decide to tell your wife, now the OW has lost all power, and you are now in control. Until then, the OW has the power.

      I have heard many OW say that same line you said about making the marriage ‘complete’ by filling that void. But there is always a sacrifice for any action. You and her might be thinking you are filling the void, but once your wife finds out, you are going to realize it was not worth it. You are also going to mentally start feeling bad, in time, all of the lying and secrets, and living another life is going to take a mental toll, it will start off very slow, but eventually,it will get to you at times. And I have a theory that when husband’s cheat, they think it is going to feel a void, but over time, it doesn’t fill that ‘void’ they thought they had, because that can only be filled from within.

      And the part about you cover up your tracks with your wife. Well, I still thinks she knows something isn’t right which is why she said she would be ok with it, a women knows her husband, she can smell something is off, so she might not pinpoint it, but her intuition is telling her something, that is just the way we are wired, like you are wired to think about sex.

      Wendy, Teex, and Gimlet, Jackie O thanks for your comments, good points on such a difficult topic!

  182. So much cannot be said here, to keep things private.

    My wife knows that I fancy the other woman sexually. My wife also knows that I don’t fancy her as someone I want to be married to. The three of us have been on the verge of a threesome before. If the OW told my wife we were together, trust me when I say it would not be the end of the world. Life would go on and I would still be married. The OW knows this, I’m not that afraid of her talking.

    The gifts are not a form of payoff for keeping her quiet. There is a very real reason for the “gifts” that I’m being evasive about on purpose. The reasons are very practical. It’s complicated.

    I live far away from the other woman and only see her every couple of months. We meet mostly in hotels and yes it’s for sex. She rarely sees my family.

    The other woman is cold. Trust me when I say she there is little to no risk of her expecting to have a realtionship with me. If anything, there would he a higher risk of me becoming emotionally attached than her.

    The truth is that I don’t loathe my wife or mistress. I was annoyed with them both the day I said that. I love my wife as a person and love sex with my mistress. It’s that simple. My sexual appetite is too much for my wife, that is why I cheat. I have explained this ad naseum in old posts.

    I choose to write on this forum for a few reasons. One, I live for philosophical debate and conflict. I love winding people up and some people here take the bait (teex is a prime example of a person who thinks with hormones rather than logic). I enjoy the perspective of people like wendy, jules, gimlet, etc. people who ask questions and make some cutting but logical comments. It forces me to think about what I’m doing.

    The other thing is that this website is largely american, and I like to see how I’m judged by the standards of one of the most hypocritical cultures on earth. While I have said much, I have reavealed precious little about me, my wife, etc. The sweeping judgements that some people make with such limited information, is humourous to me.

    And Jules is right, I don’t know if it’s self punishment coming here but I can tell you this is a lot more rewarding than it would be going to a website where cheaters got together and patted each other on the back and told each other it would be OK. I hope my presence ignites some deeper thought, a realization that cheating (a very loaded and inappropriate word) is not the root of the issue but a symptom of a different problem (lack of sex, selfishness, loneliness, etc.). I like hearing when women here take some responsibility for the martial problems. I get sad reading about the stories where the husbands are just mean to their wives.

    This is where things are at with the other woman: we communicate less and less. The connection was never that strong as it was just for sex. We do not have romantic chats and emails. We simply have sex when I’m around. This is not built on a foundation to last. That’s great, I don’t want it to and I hope she finds someone in her life that will can give her the emotional support she deserves. Ours was a temporary situation. We both know that.

    If I was at liberty to explain the situation fully, many of you would likely soften your perspective.

    Jules mentioned most men don’t have the courage to share these thoughts for fear of ridicule. I’m a little different in that regard, I certainly don’t fear ridiucle here. With at least 25%-40% of men cheating, many of those the leaders within societies, I know I’m in good company. I know that I’m not unusual or wierd. The absolutely retarded destruction of Gen Patraeus (one of your hero’s) life over his mistress by your society was appalling. Let’s be honest, his mistress looked a lot more fun than his wife, who had clearly given up trying to keep up her appearance years earlier.

    Jackie O: the women in my life meet my other needs. Other than spiritually because I don’t think that is important. I think it’s dnagerous to delude yourself with talk of God. This affair is about sex.

    you also said: “Does he need to dominate women in order to feel good about himself? Again this is a sign of a very shallow human being. I hope both women in his life leave him and get a life with someone who respects them enough not to cheat or cheat with. Yes both women are getting the short end of the stick and need to become the strong women they are.”

    Ummm, have you not heard of 50 shades of grey? I do the domination thing because it comes naturally and because the women in my life LOVE it. If it’s so shallow, why do millions of women want to be dominated by rich and powerful assholes? When women stop sending me signals and responding positively to such behaviour, then maybe I’ll change. But for now, that kind of behaviour pays too many dividends to stop.

    Both women have told me that they find this kind of behaviour sexy. Go figure.

  183. anormalman — the power you are exerting is about resources — that’s why Petraeus, and others (who we would not normally find attractive) are in demand. They represent the alpha male that women seek — providers, good genes, etc…..but at some point the OW will want a commitment. I have seen it over and over again. Unless she’s just about sex (which she may SAY for now) — but most women want the emotional commitment and then want the resources — you giving gifts shows you demonstrate this quality….success is an aphrodisiac because it gives her an idea of the kind of life she COULD have — just wait — she will start the manipulation…..and you could get stuck. She’s offering exactly what men want — sex — but that’s easy. And she can give that to anyone — obviously – so why is that special — you didn’t really earn it — so she’s no prize because she may not be discerning — just a woman in a desperate state. If you are a high achiever — I would think a challenge would be a better match for you. Any woman can offer sex to get something. It’s about being picky about what you want. Look at Patraeus. The OW liked the association and power it provided her — I doubt it was about “HIM”. Doubt if she would have given him a second look if he didn’t have that power — so it’s fake really ….. and her jealousy brought him down. Just be careful….and really look at the potential fall-out. It all depends on the kind of life you want to lead. Choices, choices — consequences, consequences….. go for it — but remember the loose ones can have diseases. Your job as the husband and head of household so to speak is to protect and to provide for your family — not destroy it. Have a great day and don’t forget to give thanks tomorrow for your family…..it may never be the same.

  184. Wendy,

    you said:

    “Doubt if she would have given him a second look if he didn’t have that power — so it’s fake really”

    You are saying that because she was into him for his power it was fake? Is liking a man for his looks “real” but liking a man for his “power” fake? What is the true mark of what makes a man attractive?

    You seem to insinuate that it’s looks that matter (e.g., patraeus who you would not normally find attractive) more than power. So is liking a man because he’s handsome more noble than liking a man for power? I imagine it’s different for every woman, but hey, if hotness is number one for you, you’re in good company, it’s huge for me too.

    Why when a woman likes a man for power is that wrong? When your boyfriend or husband kicks some ass at work or in some other way, don’t you feel more attracted to him? I think that is the way it is for most women. What is the permissible reasons for being attracted to a man in your opinion?

    I’m interested to see if my mistress will ever get emotional. She seems so distant emotionally but wants to have sex more than I do lately………I’ll admit I don’t get it.

    I didn’t think that women were wired like this but apparently there is as much variety within the sexes as between them.

    I do protect and provide for my family. THEY are grateful for that so they tell me.

  185. Anormalman, There you go again when someone says something you don’t like you go straight for how ignorant,hypocritical or foolish their religious beliefs are. I will askyou again please play nice try to stay on topic without denigrating others beliefs. As for women liking men who behave badly well that is sometimes true but usually comes from some type of problem in their past. It has always pained me to see women with so much to offer invariably choose someone who will hurt them again and again but it is not the case with most of us even if it may seem that way. As for 50 shades as I recall his need to dominate came from a pretty severe case of self loathing not some inclination he was born with. The comment you made about being judged unfairly because we don’t know all the details involved is not fair either as we can only comment on the information you choose to share with us. I think many of us have tried to offer you advise or possible insights that we rightly or wrongly think will help you. Surely if you have read through this site you recognize the pain we have endured and not to expect us to be upset with some of your comments is too ridiculous for someone with your intillect. At times reading your posts has been infuriating (note here that I have not sunk to insulting comments) but at the same time you have offered some interesting points to ponder. I do hope you are not here to poke and prod just to get a rise out of us, that would be sad and even a bit cruel. Once again why not tell your wife? that is what I really am interested to know. I almost forgot my view on your OW is while it may seem she wants sex mor than you trust us she is doing that to reel you in she wants you to think of her when ever you are with your wife (or anyone else for that matter). The reason a woman has sex with a man in his families home is for that very reason of this I am 100% sure.

  186. Anormalman you may say what you wish about me I do NOT care you are here trying to justify why you are cheating and in your OWN WORDS you are clearly the alpha male you know that there is absolutely NOTHING right about what you are doing to your Family sorry you will get no empathy from me perhaps,maybe you should see a Therapist they are paid to listen to.all kinds of BS without judging or letting emotions get involved I said what I said because you are evidently here for a reason but don’t you sit.there and try to justify why you are making sex.faces with another Woman in your marital home and then say your.Wife would be relieved if she found out who the ow is ok then tell her oh wait she KNOWS you see us Women we are smart like that we know when a man is cheating on us but I think she doesn’t care it is about a lifestyle you have money and she doesn’t but you are NOT in control of this situation not by.a long shot maybe your Wife and the OW laugh at you and your ignorance for thinking you hold all of the cards go figure or not I’m so done with this because it’s falling on deaf ears anyway you will only get worse until you meet your march and you will.

  187. What I don’t understand, anormalman, is why you’re still married to your wife. What if there’s a man out there who would make a better, more compatible husband to her, and by remaining married to her, you’re keeping her from finding him? Wouldn’t you want her to be happy, even if it’s with someone else? She’s already said she wouldn’t be happy if you slept with someone else (you keep adding the “but she’d understand” part – but you’re missing the main part: SHE SAID SHE WOULDN’T BE HAPPY) – yet you’re doing it right now? Why are you still married to her at all if you’re going to sleep with one of her friends? You said that you kind of hope she finds out – tell her. See what happens. Maybe you’ll both work harder on the relationship, or maybe she’ll leave you free to sleep with all the other women you want. You won’t know unless she knows. So why not tell her? You’ve said before that you don’t think she wants to know… I think she does. If she already knows you fancy her friend, then yes, she probably does want to know if you’re sleeping with her. So tell her. What’s holding you back?

  188. Another thing… you said in your post in late February that as long as it were BRIEF and didn’t lead to a relationship… What you’re describing is anything but “brief”; it is ongoing. When would you stop seeing the OW, then, if it’s to be a “brief” thing? And some might argue that gift-giving = relationship. On March 12th, you mentioned that you would keep it in mind about unstable other women and that maybe a prostitute would be easier… You chose one of your wife’s friends. That’s about as unstable as it gets, considering that she now knows more about your marriage than your wife does, and there’s a good chance she subtly throws it in her face (not in a way that your wife would know – unless your wife has picked up on it and is fishing with you to see if you really did do anything with her) whenever your wife and she hang out or talk. You don’t feel guilty that your wife’s friend now knows more about your marriage than your wife? Now knows you in a way that only your wife should, and that whenever she and your wife talk, she can picture you in a way she shouldn’t be able to? Doesn’t that feel like a stab in the back of your wife? And you said that your wife would feel relieved to know it’s her friend – why? Why would your wife be so relieved to know that you slept with one of her friends, versus a woman you’ll never see again? Why would you go back on your own words?

  189. anormalman — ha ha! Your response is amusing and contradicting. All I was insinuating was that I doubt that his mistress would be after someone who didn’t offer her something more than she has. It’s not about just looks at all. Attraction is complex and different for each of us. She’s an egomaniac. This case is about her wanting to get the prize. I just doubt she would have gone after someone who is 20 years older than her, unemployed and had nothing to offer. I’m speaking of this particular woman. She got what she wanted and it was a challenge and feather in her cap — and the high that went with it — unfortunately these kinds of people thrive on the highs and lows — they are risk takers — regardless of who they hurt in the process…kind of narcissististic. It’s the high. I never said he’s not attractive — but the power makes him more so — you said it yourself — and yes, I find my husband even more attractive when he kicks butt in anything he does. I’m sure your mistress finds you a more attractive package regardless of your looks since you say you are successful and can provide her with things and maybe you have a nice house that’s she’s trying to make hers by “marking it”. She sounds like a piece of work….she sounds so desperate. I’m just surprised if you were going to cheat, that you wouldn’t have gone after someone more of a challenge — someone “worthy of you”. Oh — but that was probably your wife. Never mind. As Jon Bon Jovi once said — I love only one thing more than my wife — and that’s my money — so I wouldn’t cheat on my wife because I would lose my money. Be very careful — or you’ll lose your wife, your money and then your power.

  190. To “anormalman”:

    I’ve reflected on your post for several days as it resonated with me on many things you’ve said.

    I know sex is important for a man…I guess enough so that he would destroy the life he has built with his wife and children. It is disheartening to realize that a thrill and an orgasm can destroy so many hopes and dreams for so many people. Children get a broken home, husbands usually end up alone with limited visitation, and woman struggle to make it on their own as single moms. The mistress waits for scraps and leftovers. Just who ends up happy in this scenario…?

    I wish people could be honest from the beginning. If they are incapable of honesty, integrity, and a sense of honor for a marriage, why enter a commitment promising that they will. For myself, I wanted one life partner, someone to invest into a future of building a family, and a stable and happy life. What I got was an actor pretending to be a dedicated husband when he is home, and doing whatever he feels like for himself when he is not. What a waste of time for both of us. And a gut wrenching loss for me.

    We all know there is a line of staying true, or crossing for your own temptations. Why do married people want to straddle two worlds, acting married and acting single? Why can’t they just pick one and stop creating so many emotional casualties? If you could feel only a small portion of the pain and disappointment of being betrayed by someone you loved, supported, and believed in; I think you might make some of your decisions differently. Especially if you are blessed enough to have a family and children.

    Most situations start out as one tiny transgression, maybe a little flirting, then secret coffee breaks, etc. before they become full blown affairs. But there is always a price to pay. Usually everyone involved pays part of it, sometimes right away, and sometimes years later. I know I have cried for more time than my husband has actually spent having sex with someone else. But something has died between us that we will never get back.

    I am attempting to try and see if my marriage can be salvaged as we have children. But his affair infects everything. Two of our sons found out from family members gossiping, and our relationship is forever changed. I will never believe in him again like I used to, I will always know that he will never have my back. All these years he’s told me he loves me, and we are great together. I realize now that he doesn’t even know what real love is. Because real love wouldn’t hurt someone like this.

    I find myself rebuilding my own life, asking the same questions you are like…”what is love? No one else controls our integrity or personal honor which people forsake for their own short term pleasure. At some level there will be a trade off, a personal cost of all the deceit will take its own toll…and the fall out damage is unpredictable and utterly devastating.

  191. My husband had an affair 13 years ago. The result 13 years later-He has a 12 year old daughter (which she “tricked” him into having ) thinking he would leave me and marry her since we never had children. I told her at the beginning “If he would leave his wife for you, what makes you think he won’t leave you as soon as something better comes along?” she said “I’ll deal with that when it happens”. It took less than 2 years before he met a woman on the internet from mexico city, flew there, and got her pregnant too. He now has a son in Mexico that he’s hardly ever seen (he doesn’t pay child support) and a 12 year old daughter here that visits on the weekend (he doesn’t pay child support for her either) He is married to me and has 2 kids by 2 different women and never had any intention of marrying either of them although he bought one an engagement ring and the other one was having towels monogrammed with his initials for when they got married. There may not be consequences for everyone but based on my faith as a christian, I believe if a christian commits a sin, he is disciplined in THIS life (to learn). If a non christian commits a sin, God doesn’t discipline him in this life. He judges them on Judgement day. But nobody really “gets away” with anything. You can’t build a life of happiness on someone else’s pain. Eventually, one way or the other you have to pay the piper. So- here we are 13 years later. My BMW driving overpaid husband who used to take me to Vegas 6 times a year and was one of the happiest people I know (when he behaved like the christian he claims to be, we were blessed) lost his job, blew through more than $250,000 on booze, women, who knows but neither of the other women got the money and neither did I. His life was a series of rehab, AA, psychiatrists,etc. He ended up homeless, penniless, scared, with no place to go-his own mother wouldn’t help him, nor any of his mistresses because they never loved him. They liked his money and the fact that if they could take him from me, it somehow made them “better” than me. I was modeling at the time and they were both obese, and not particularly pretty (not ugly but no hottie either). I think he went after a certain type (the opposite of me) where they had a weight problem or were poor and he could feel like a big man with money thus boosting HIS self esteem. He was young and handsome and they felt like a princess riding with him in his BMW with the top down and enjoying a lifestyle I guess I sort of took for granted.
    He ended up in the hospital with sepsis near death and his mother and sister still wouldn’t help him. He was like a scared little boy crying and begging me to let him sleep in my garage. He ended up living in a friend’s filthy hot garage for nearly a year. During this time he quit drinking, read the bible and has been humbled. As a christian woman and a compassionate human being, how could I sit here in all this luxury while he was sleeping in a gutter? so I took him in. He is doing much better but still suffers from paralyzing depression, low self esteem, can’t keep a job, has tried unsuccessfully to get his old job back but keeps getting passed over. I barely make enough to support myself. We have a roof over our heads and food and that is it. There is no extra money, things will never be the same, I will always love him but I can’t say it doesn’t still affect me at times or that I will ever think of him the same way or trust him. Sometimes I forget and start to trust him and then I remember what he’s capable of. I have forgiven him and both women and have a good relationship with his daughter. We are now both old and unattractive as are both of the women and nobody cares about self-esteem, sex, or “winning” anymore. We are just a bunch of unhappy old people. His daughter’s mother has 3 kids by 3 different men (only married one of the dads which didnt last and her third marriage is about to end). The other one never married and is raising the kid by herself with no help. My family disowned me for taking him back so now he is all I have. Please-if you are thinking about having an affair, I know you’re horny and it would give you a temporary rush and feeling of energy and youth but DONT do it. It is NOT worth throwing your life away and tho you cant see it now, trust me. I’ve read the last chapter and it does NOT have a happy ending. It only took 13 years to go from yuppies to the gutter and tbey weren’t happy years for ANY of us. Constant anxiety for him, the women, and me. So 5 minutes of pleasure for 13 year of hell? BAD IDEA!

  192. To Abnormalman(sic)
    Do you have ANY idea how much pain, misery and destruction you have caused?
    The trickle down affect. My husband only had 2 affairs but destroyed the lives of at least 12 people including himself. Not to mention their families. If you honestly believe that you can be a complete ASS and reap rewards for that behavior, maybe you should talk to my husband. It’s like a drug addiction. He lost his job, both women, his home, ALL his money and he was a very rich man, the respect of his wife, parents, friends, and then had to sell everything he owned including a custom made guitar that he bought from Eric Bloom from Blue Oyster Cult, his entire CD collection, his seven other guitars, his wedding ring, his BMW was stolen with all his clothes in it since he was living in his car. He then had to live in his friends garage for a year. He got the car back but his clothes and all the tools were gone. All because one bad decision led to another until he was in so deep he couldn’t get out. And someday he will have to explain to his daughter why he has been married to me since 1992, we are still married in 2013, I am NOT her mother and she is only 12. She isn’t stupid. She is going to figure it out that she is the product of adultery and her father was not only a cheat, he didn’t care enough to marry her mother. Her mother will have to explain why it’s okay to sleep with married men and she has 3 baby daddys, yet doesn’t consider herself a whore. Does she want her kids to follow in her footsteps?

    How is his daughter going to feel when she finds out both her parents are liars, adulterers and how is she going to feel about herself? Kids freak out when they find out they are adopted and their parents kept it from them. This is much worse.

    Then he got pneumonia and ended up in the hospital with sepsis and they didn’t expect him to make it. He now suffers from all sorts of health problems and is depressed, unemployed and miserable. But YOU are smarter than that so nothing bad will ever happen to you right? No God, No Karma. Just remember when it happens, that you said that. (By the way, my husband isn’t stupid. He has an IQ of 130 and had a quarter of a million dollars in the bank, owned a nice home and a BMW Z3 roadster all before he was 30 years old AND he was very handsome. He threw it all away for a woman who doesn’t even want him anymore. Apparently, it was the lifestyle and money she was attracted to and not HIM (and he is a lot more attractive than she is). What an ego boost! If the only way you can “love” is if the guy has power and money, you don’t know what love is. Have you ever loved someone not for their looks or what they can do for you but for the combination of things on the inside that make them who they are. You love their soul, interests, humor, you have fun when you are with them,they make you happy. THAT is love.

    But I’m sure you are smarter, better looking, and richer than my husband so nothing bad can ever happen to you. Gee, it must be nice to have all the answers and never make a mistake or if you do, there are no consequences. So you just keep doing it. (And Good luck with that!)

    And as far as some of you saying it’s “safe” tell it to Maryjo Buttafuoco. Not to mention, getting a horrible disease and giving it to your wife. They call that murder don’t they?

  193. I am so glad to have found this article. I caught my husband cheating 6 days ago. I wondered why he pursued an uneducated labor worker who barely speaks english instead of me. I have never bragged on myself, but I have a college education – paid for by scholarships because of my grades & even turned down a modeling contract to pursue my education. I currently hold one of the top positions working for a billion dollar company and I swear to you – pack my husband’s lunch every morning & make a homecooked meal most every night….and still raise the 3 most perfect children in the world.Our sex life was amazing and was getting better as I thought our marriage was getting stronger since we were about to hit our 20 year anniversary. I have never experienced such an unbearable pain in my life – because on top of my own broken heart, I have to fix my chidrens’ broken hearts as well.

    1. Hi Stephanie,

      I know you just found out, and the pain hurts SOOO much. What you describe is quite common and frustrating at the same time. As the wife, you do everything right, have kids, cook, clean, work. You are super-woman, and the only thing you ask for is a faithful husband.

      I sacrificed so much of myself so that I could be the ‘super-woman’ to my husband. I was not perfect, and yes I did make my share of mistakes, but I thought that if I kept him happy (even at the sacrifice of my own happiness, then he would be faithful and committed to me.

      The harsh life lesson for me was that your actions do not create a faithful man. He has to be faithful on his own, and that decision has less to do with you and more to do with him and his mentality.

      A man that decides that he wants to cheat will find a mental reason in his head to validate his cheating. You could be the perfect woman, and he will claim he wants variety. Any excuse will do, but again, it has to do with where he is in his life, and if he decides to cheat.

      The kids, it is tough on them. And I know with kids and work you really don’t have the time to grieve like you want to, it is overwhelming. But you will get through this. And when you do, guess what? You are going to show your kids a glowing example of how to encounter major obstacles in life, and eventually overcome them. It will not be easy, but you will get through this. Hugs to you!!

  194. Thanks for this wonderful site. I found out my hubby was cheating on my while recovering from a devastating accident. He justifies his horrid behavior on past childhood abandonment issues and I look at this with a “side eye”. Yes, losing a parent is horrible and i have never experienced it, but he was not being the hubby I needed him to be and we were in counseling at the time when he decided to be with a woman who weighs 75 to 100 pounds more than me. They had sex on numerous occasions and when he “came clean”…It was so disgusting. He now has had this “come to Jesus” moment that I again look at with a “side eye”…Maybe he has? I don’t know.. But, I just don’t see him the same at all on any level. It has only been a couple of months…But, I truly detest him and if it was not for our children; I would be “ghost” as in unseen…

    1. Hi Sabrina’s Dream,

      You are welcome. You never look at your husband the same way after an affair. Contrary to believe, men do not cheat because of looks or body appeal. I hope that you have healed from the accident. I know that feeling of your husband cheating when you need him the most, my husband cheated while I was pregnant, at a time where I was my weakest. If your husband says he cheated because of childhood issues, the main question is what is going to prevent him from doing it again? He can not change his childhood, so he really needs to figure out what is going on, you have a family and having to go through this with kids and recovering from an accident must be tough. Make sure you take time for yourself (make your husband watch the kids while you take some time out to think and relax).Take Care.

  195. To Jewels from USA-
    Thank you for words of understanding. I never thought I would be living a Lifetime movie. You see, my husband recently fell very ill & was taken into the hospital by ambulance. I saw him exactly 1 hour before this happened. The police officer called me & I rushed to the hospital –when I walked in – the paramedics thought I was his mistress as she was the last one he spoke to & sent texts to. My husband had a work phone which he ALWAYS hid from me & NEVER let me see. He always hid it so well. Over the years I found tons of pornographic pictures & videos on his phone, along with tons of texts from other women. When I called them, they would hang up quickly & never speak but a few hateful words to me. Because of my husband’s illness – he has lost some of his memory & now may be out of work for months. I stayed by his bedside for a week while he was hospitalized, feeding him & changing his diapers as he had to be restrained into his bed since he was literally out of control & not in the right mind. I had sleepless nights & now we are home & I am still caring for him. I have not told him yet that I know, but as his memory comes back, I want to. The messages & pictures he & his mistress sent each other sicken me & I feel as if there is a 1,000 pound rock in the bottom of my stomach. However, this woman actually spoke to me on the phone & told me of several of their encounters – she said she did this because I told her how sick he was. She swears she did not know he was married, as he usually spent time with her during the day instead of being at work – and he never did wear a wedding ring – he has always had a very physical job & was always getting bruised or cut & said it was dangerous for him to wear jewelry. I am a strong Christian woman, that is why I a standing by faithfully – but that doesn’t exempt me from this immeasurable pain. I will never understand why men do this & what gives us women the ability to be strong!!!??? I pray for every woman who has felt this pain!!! I have no idea what to do – my body & tongue are still numb & I know I will never fully recover.

  196. Stephanie, You are truly a good Christian to be able to put aside your pain and feelings of betrayal to care for your husband in his time of need. may god grant you strength and peace of mind. I’m sure I can speak for all the women here to say welcome and we will be here for you when you need us. Hugs.

  197. Stephanie,
    Like Gimlet said, you have landed in a very safe place for healing. The women here understand your pain and we share in helping you find your way out from under it when you are ready- just like others have done for us. You are right when you say you will never fully recover- but with time you will heal and discover a lot of new things about yourself along your journey- trust me! I am so sorry about your husband’s accident. I know that the stress of his recovery and the demands of his care will be a true test of faith for you. God will only give us what we can handle, thus you must be a very strong woman to begin with– rely on that strength my friend. Know that the one thing that you can’t change is the past, but look at this time as a time to sort it all out and start something new. This all happened the way it was supposed to happen. Right now just BREATHE– find a foot hold- and hang on for a bumpy ride. Know you have found somewhere to let it all out and that you are not crazy–even if you feel like you have just fallen off a cliff. We have all been there. Your situation is very unique. I am not a professional- and this is just a suggestion- but I would suggest that you find someone to talk to in person and help you through this discovery phase. A medical professional if you can- someone you trust to help you navigate the maze of the affiar, when you can start talking to him about it, and how to start healing. It is the most difficult thing you will ever do even under normal circumstances. You have so much to deal with– not only the affair, but his loss of memory, his physical recovery, your family, and your job– that is A LOT. Therapy is not for everyone, but it helped save me- and I am a true believer now. You are in my thoughts and prayers– Be strong, find time for yourself, and know we are all here. Peace and Blessings

  198. Thank you so much Gimlet & JB,
    You know, I thought therapy was only for crazy people, that I would never need it -but I can’t tell you how much I need it right now. I don’t know how much longer I can keep this inside – my body shakes when I think about it & that feeling of that 1,000 lb rock in my stomach has not gone away. I am constantly nauseous & have to keep my bible close by along with my other books I have been reading for years – The Power of A Praying Wife, The Power to Change Your Marriage, & some that are new within the past year – The Love Dare & The Resolution for Women. I am so dead inside, constantly telling myself I am the stupidest woman in the world. Your encouragement means so much, it is sad that I am not alone, that so many women go through this.Thank you for your prayers, & I will keep mine going as well, for all of us women trying to be strong for our children.

  199. I don’t like how you put all the blame on the man. If the wife was more attentive and more giving to the man many times cheating could be avoided completely. Sweat pants and no make up all the time sucks. You did not do much of that before the marriage so now its OK to change once the ring is on. In many ways you push your men in to the other woman’s arms. I never cheated I left before that happened and i’m much happier with my new girlfriend. My ex and I are still good friends but we started to feel to much like brother and sister or two people just coexisting not lovers. I have spoke to some of my friends that are cheating or have and it was all about the adventurer you heard allot of we did stuff my wife would never do.

  200. Kylie

    So bitter sis. You started out in this forum pretending to care about the wife and his 14 year old daughter (Jewel was trying to understand your motivation for telling the wife). Finally all is revealed. You want him for yourself even after saying what a horrible person he is you have gotten yourself pregnant to keep him. Women like you truly are disgusting. Karmas a bitch, watch out for that bomerang girl!!!!!!!

  201. Hey Juan

    Then a man needs to articulate whats wrong instead of cheating. Lets be clear men dont stay the same as we met them either. Good for you and your new girlfriend and I applaud you for not cheating. So what happens now, if she does not hold to your superior standards and expectations of how she should look? Gonna leave her too?

    There is no excuse for cheating. Grown people speak and if they are not happy then like you they leave respectfully! Im just sayin

  202. Leslie watch and read 2 Kylie’s on here.

    And I never did tell his wife and he is now cheating on her again. I feel bad I should have told her. Too late now.

    It’s sad so very sad.

  203. Hi Juan-sounds like u did not read my previous posts. I am college educated & turned down a modeling contract to finish my schooling & marry my husband. We had amazing sex almost every night & we have 3 beautiful children.I am able to juggle taking care of it all—a top position at a billion dollar company & still make home cooked meals & volunteer at my children’s school events. I swear i tried to be the perfect wife, never speaking disrespectful to him, & always praising him. I am a strong Christian–believe me I wish I knew where I failed. The pain is even word because I can’t figure out what I did wrong.

  204. Juan, What you say has some truth, in my case I became so focused on caring for our 5 children and making sure all the bills were paid on time and the thousands of other little things that we do everyday that maybe I didn’t take care of myself like I used to. That being said my husband did not jump in to lighten my load as I may have needed ,he was inconsiderate at times and certainly was not as romantic as he was in the past, he put on weight and belched and passed gas without consideration of how I felt about it. It was not attractive behvior to me but I understood that he worked very hard to provide for us. I accepted that he was never going to be prince charming and took him for who he was and never, ever, even once flirted with another man or even entertained the idea of cheating. Marriage is a two way street and a commitment if you are so unhappy with your spouse you owe them at least the honesty of telling them that you want to move on before you cheat that way maybe later you can maintain enough respect for eachother to be friends. Betrayal by someone you love and trust is so very hard to recover from and not having enough excitment in your life is a very shallow reason to betray the mother or father of your children., don’t you think? I will admit though that I did pull away from my husband out of resentment for what I felt was a lack of appreciation for all I was doing and I have had to accept that the problems resulting from that played a part in my husbands choices but that does not excuse those choices he made and I think he would be the first to agree with that. I hope your new love stays fresh enough for you but if not at least let her know things aren’t working for you and give her a chance to work with you to make things right. I suppose only time will tell. Best of luck to you both.

  205. Kylie

    Sorry for crossing your two narratives.
    But let us still speak from the truth, you did in fact have an affair with someones husband and someones father. Not your place to now be concerned about people you hurt. Lets be truthful, had he left her, you would have gladly had and him and you would be her. You are still in hopes that he will leave her and return to you. Your motives for telling about the others are very questionable.

    About telling his wife though, still not your place. You were part of the problem so you could never be her solution, even if he is cheating again. Marriage is between two people and you had and still have no place in it. When and if she decides to leave that will be her decision.

    It is sad. Sad for her and her family but it was just as sad when you were the one laying with her husban. You should not be that interested and invested in their marriage.

    Do you belive that we reap what we sow, karma, what goes around comes around, etc.? If so what do you expect if you one day marry?

    You cant claim to feel sorry for her now, it sounds absurd.
    Hes taken, move on and find someone for yourself and hope that you dont run into a woman just like yourself somewhere in your future.

  206. On a lighter note.

    Merry Christmas to all of you and much joy during this holiday season.

    Joy is there even at this most low time of our lives.

    Watch you babies sleeping, oh so precious.
    Stare up at a star filled night sky, see the beauty and comtemplate the universes infinite possibilites for your future happiness

    Wishing you all the best

  207. Merry christmas.

    But again before u pass ultimate judgement on me please read that I did know he was married. I only found out later. To which it’s over. I also posted that well over a year ago.

  208. a normalman from ireland


    Your reasoning has prevailed. I met with my mistress today and told her it was over. After spending Christmas with my family and my parents/inlaws I realized that you are right. I don’t want to hurt any children. I don’t want to hurt my wife (our relationship is much improved lately).

    The mistress is more or less fine. I will never tell anyone about this.

    I don’t feel bad for what I did. It was fun, a good learning experience. I know what I want now.

    Thanks for your insight.

    A reformed (but unrepentant) cheater.

    1. Great news Anormalman, good way to bring in the new year by cutting out the mistress. You are lucky because most of the time, the other woman does not go down so quietly. It seems like you saved your family from a great deal of pain, the only thing you will have to potentially deal with is your own mind holding the secret (which you state is not an issue at the moment) and the potential of her finding out at a later day. Again, above all, you broke it off with the other woman, don’t go back, and if you ever think about going back, you can read a couple of stories on the site to hopefully remind you of what you could stand to lose. Happy new year !!

  209. My husband cheated on me because I didn’t like sex and he loves sex. Maybe that’s why some other husbands cheat? Oh and the woman he was with for 8 years is younger and prettier and has her own successful business and four children.

  210. Dear Kara,
    It is not because she is younger and prettier because she has to be pretty ugly to think she can have a affair with someone else’s husband. She is a very ugly person and I am sorry for you.

  211. Beyond the Middle

    The conversation about the other woman is very long read, so please forgive me because I haven’t had the opportunity read all of the post. I am a injured spouse still suffering from my spouse cheating for over 3 years.

    I found out about a year ago that he was having an affair after the other woman texted me. She tried to make it appear that I was having an affair with another man. After I did a number reversed on her cell number, I found out that this woman had called my house on several occasion in the past, asking to speak with my husband. I was devastated to say the least. Months went by and she contacted me on several other occasions by phone and by text to tell me that I had messed up my marriage and she was licking his wounds. When I mention this to him, he responded as though he didn’t care. Now months have went by and he’s now spending days with her and then days with me. It frustrates me every time I see him because it’s like he’s pouring salt into my wounds, that I can never heal from because I am still with him. It has completely drove me insane. Sometimes I am alright then other times I am completely a mess suffering from bouts of depression to panic attacks, not knowing what to do. I would also like to mention that I lost my job 2 years ago and he financially supports me.

    I have no idea what to do because I know that she only wants me to move out of the house so that she can have everything that he and I have built over the last 11 years (6 years of marriage). However, I did tell him that I have had enough and wanted out of the marriage so he should file for a divorce since it appears that he wants to be with her. He told me that he takes care of me therefore I should have nothing to say and since I am dissatisfied with everything that I should file for the divorce. Well he knows I can’t get the divorce because I have no income. So, I feel stuck…PLEASE OFFER YOUR SUGGESTIONS.

  212. Anormalman, Really glad to hear you have chosen to honor the life you have built with your wife and protect your children from the pain that comes from these situations. Wheter or not you should ever tell your wife about the brief affair I just don’t know on one hand why cause her so much pain for something that is in the past and on the other if she ever finds out from any other way the trust issues are hard to overcome. Either way I truly am glad that things are better for you and your wife and wish you a happy lifetime together. Happy New Year!

  213. Dear Jewel, I cannot tell you how much this post helped my self-esteem. I laughed so hard then I read it outloud to my husband (We have decided to get back together). He wasn’t too thrilled butt I loved it. One of the most difficult things I’ve had to deal with was that she was a SKANK! I mean she didn’t shower, her hair dye dripped, she had affairs with at least 4 other married men in the 2 years I knew her. She was overweight and did nothing with her life. I never understood why he would be attracted to flith like that. Now I do. THANK you so much! Robin

    1. Robin/Beyond the Middle

      Robin – Thanks, laughs that can come out of such pain is a good thing, I wish you well in getting back with your husband.

      Beyond the Middle – I know you feel trapped, but you are not trapped. I repeat you are not trapped. The more knowledge you have, the less trapped you will feel. You always have a choice. I understand that you do not have any income and that he supports you, but just because that is the set up.I really do not like the comment he said that he takes care of you therefore you have nothing to say. Wrong. You are his wife, you have a voice and a position of power, income or no income. I want you to start to tell yourself that you have power and that you will find a way to leave if that is what you choose. As long as you ‘feel’ trapped, you will be trapped. As long as you feel ’empowered’ you will be. As far as the money, in no way am I am lawyer so this is not legal advice, just a point for you to consider. I know that in each state, there are divorce lawyers that provide free consultations to those considering divorce. It would be a bad idea to Google of those and sit down and have a conversation. The more knowledge you have, the more empowered you will feel. Take care!

  214. I’m writing this because at some point I have to move on with my life, I want to wake up in the morning and not focus on them( My husband and his new wife) we were together 15 years married 9 , high school sweet hearts. We have two children and he has a daughter from another relationship when we were on again off again. (Before marriage )During the marriage I was a stay at home mom. He was controlling and verbally abusive. My self esteem was at an all time low. He would make major decisions and then tell me about it later. I wasn’t happy but tried to be a god wife. I felt trapped but never cheated because I took my vows seriously . I ignored all the red flags of cheating because I thought he loved me . We began to fight more and more and it was effecting the children. I asked for a divorce and moved in with my mom for six months. We went on dates, I would come by the house and sleep with him. We were trying to work it out. But he would never agree to get professional help. I moved backed in the home and he got an apartment. He said he was out one night and meet an old friend from high school . They started dating and he got her pregnant and was hiding it from . When I found out I he asked me to take him back but I Had been lied to ,cheated on and abused enough was enough . I didn’t have money to file for a divorce so he rushed the divorce , the kids and I got an apartment close by .the same day I moved out he moved his pregnant girlfriend in our home , he came by my apartment on a few occasions trying to remains friendship and sleep with me . I went to pick the kids up from my home and this bitch let me in my own home. I told her how he was still coming by my place and sleeping with me. 2 months after I told her he married her in our home with the kids present. She knew we were married ,but knowing him he lied to her . He tried to take custody of the kids but I gave him a lashing over the phone. The next thing I know his wife starts txting me telling me how I’m a bad mom and she was a better women than me , and that’s why he married her , she owns her own business so that makes her better than me. My kids seem to like her and have adjusted to the new life. I didn’t talk to my ex for about 6months after I told her he was cheating with me . he came by last month to talk and work out issue so we could be better parents , we had sex which I wish would have never happen.I really felt like I had moved on . Long story short he wife busted him this time coming out of my apartment and we had a physical fight . I never thought I would be going through this high school drama . I have let them both know to stay away from me and Im happy that now she can deal with his lying cheating and abuse. I deserve better and I know I will grow and heal from this situation , I’m glad my kids where not here to see the cat fight. I finished lvn school and plan on going back for my RN I want to raise my daughters to be strong god fearing women and hope they never marry are get involve with assholes like their dad. He is a good provider but morally he is not showing my kids how a real man is suppose to treat his family, he is a selfish person.

    We have been divorced for a 1 year and he has been married 6 months . I know she is not better than me and his cheating has nothing to do with me. He is a selfish man . He could have divorced me and then started a relationship with her . I went through a lot with him and I feel I deserved more respect. He threaten to take the kids over the phone. I’m a good mom , so I don’t worry about him trying to take my kids.I have been primary care giver since day one, he just want to use the kids to hurt me . I can’t believe that she thinks she is better because she married a cheating, lying , asshole. I hate to admit that it felt god to see the hurt , humilation and shame on her face when she saw him leaving my place. He lied and told her we were just talking about the kids. They are still together now. He called me and pitched a fit because I mailed her a get well soon card after the fight. She was pretty bloody so I was just concerned for her (not). She came to my property looking for her husband then attacked me . I was defending myself. She got what she deserved. Im not placing blame on her totally . She knew he was married and separated . She could have backed off until the divorce. Why would you marry someone that’s been divorced 6 months? He admitted that he made a mistake the last time he came by but it’s to late now. I still love him and can’t believe he ened things so heartless and cold. People think separation is a hall pass to date while their marriage is in limbo. Separated or not your still married . It kills me to think that he is treating her like gold and I tried so hard to please him. I wasted most of my adult life with someone who never loved me.

    I went to his home to pick the kids up one day. Can you imagine going to the home you and your husband feel in love with , and another women has the keys and opens the door for you. I was so hurt. I loved my house. I can’t sleep and writing seems to help. I can’t go another year on this roller coaster . I was in such a wonderful place before my ex came by that day. I feel like he opened the wound again. Im more emotional and started having crying spells again. Im sorry my earlier post were mean spirited and misspell words . It was a busy day And lately my thoughts have been obsessed with thinking about how happy I assume they are. Im running on fumes.

    Thank god! I’m out of my marriage my ex husband just called and asked me to meet him at the grocery store down the street. I agree in hopes of him giving me some cash . He try’s to sleep with me . Im so proud of myself for not giving in to lust of the flesh. I can’t believe how insensitive he is . His wife just caught him at my home in December and here he is once again trying to sleep with me. I’m angry that he doesn’t have any remorse or moral values . I told him I’m so glad I don’t have to deal with your cheating lying ass. I can only imagine the sleazy things he did behind my back when we were married. I don’t feel sorry for his wife. She told me he was a good man and husband . She doesn’t see the side of him that I have grown to hate. I hope and pray that one day she finds out the truth . But I will not be the home wrecker that she finds him with. I deserve respect , love and kindness. I hope one day god send a worthy man to be my husband. I know now that all my tears and heartache was a waste of time on someone who doesn’t love or respect his self. I’m glad he makes the advances toward me they fuel the fire to keep moving on and I know im a better person morally than he will ever be.

    1. Betterthanyou,

      I know this might sound off, but in a way, the other woman might of done you a favor by taking your husband (ex-husband now). You stated that he had been verbally abusive, controlling, leaves you out of major decisions. He lies, and after everything, he is still trying to sleep with you, knowing he is re-married?? I sense some anger in you for the OW taking him away, or being angry that she is now in your home, with your ex-husband. Let me tell you, there is nothing to be angry about. Matter of fact, you wish her well. Because at the end of the day, anger takes up precious time and energy in your heart, she is not worth it. You know what she is dealing with in your ex-husband. You already had that experience. My fear is that if you keep focusing on your ex-husband and the OW, you are going to miss a great life that is waiting right in front of you. It is right there for you to see, but you have to turn your head the right way (smile). Look forward. Do not put yourself in a position to sleep with him again. I almost feel like if he asks in your head you should think ‘I don’t go backwards, only forward’. Do whatever it takes to avoid putting yourself in situations that cause triggers. If going to your old home causes triggers, pick another place to meet. Do what makes you feel most comfortable, you deserve to voice your opinion. This is a transition period for you, time to look forward towards new beginnings. At this time, I would focus on looking ahead, and reflecting on what you want in your new life, what brings you joy and excitement. What do you want different next time around? Take some months to discover the answers to those questions. and you will be just fine. Oh……by the way, there are men out there that will not abuse you, lie to you, and cheat on you. In order for you to even ‘see it’, it starts with you, it starts with treating yourself with respect and honor while you are alone, so that you know what it feels like. It starts with looking at what’s next, versus what is behind. It starts with you. Take care, you will be just fine.

  215. Thanks! Jewels
    I’m in better place today. I’m looking forward and I’m excited about completing my goals . I really feel free and blessed to have a new beginning . I feel more confident and enjoy life more since my divorce . You are so right . I was mad at the ow , but now that I truly know his cheating had nothing to do with me . Once a cheater always a cheater really does apply to this situation . I might have lost my financial status, home and marriage, but I’m gaining more confidence, love and independence and thats Priceless. I’m glad I found your website. Thanks so much for creating it. It a blessing to find others who truly have walked in your shoes and no the pain that cheating causes. I’m not a victim . I have victory over this situation. The way of the Lord is strength and a stronghold to the upright, but destruction to the workers of iniquity. Proverbs 10:29

  216. I recently confirmed that my husband had been cheating on me with girl off 17. He’s 35 and I’m 40; we’ve been together for the last 12 years, been living together for 2 and married just a year. I have 2 sons from a previous relationship which my husband have raised since the eldest one was 3.

    Last August we took into a live in maid, she was 17 and the half sister of my aunt’s caretaker so I trusted her. In the more than 10 years my husband and I have been together there had never been an instant when he gave me cause to be suspicious. All this time he had been a responsible, loving and faithful lover, husband, friend and father to my children. He works nights and I work in the day time so we barely see each other except on weekends. The kids go to school and this left them alone in the house very often.

    Then the noticed the girl started wearing very low necklines and I would see her walking around the house going to the bathroom in just her towel wrapped around her. I called her out and told her to stop. I talked to my husband and said I want to fire the maid but he refused telling me I was being irrational and if I don’t check myself I would do the same to the next maid. So she stayed for a few more months. That was my biggest mistake.

    When I did finally fire her it was too late. The moment she left the house I noticed my husband started texting a lot. He changed the password on his mobile phone, closed his FB account, changed his email password and diverted the billing of his mobile service provider to his email. Our fights started to escalate too and he blamed it on my investigating his every move. And I pointed out that he’s acting suspiciouss.

    Finally, I got the proof I needed and confronted him and he admitted to constantly calling texting our former maid. He didn’t even act remorseful when he admitted it. I slapped him and asked him to leave the house. We got silent for hours until he came to me and said he wanted to stay and work things out with me. He promised to end his connection with the girl. And I really thought things would be okay.

    He went to work that day but by the time he came home, he was troubled and agitated. It was his rest day the next day and he slept all day then suddenly when he woke up he started packing and told me he was going to stay with his parents for a while. He said he needed to think and he feels suffocated in our house. I panicked and threw a fit but eventually I let him leave.

    His there right now and he wouldn’t take any of my calls or text. He would email me sometimes but those are very short and impersonal if not asking for more time to think things through. Now I don’t know if my mother-in-law is lying or not but she says she doesn’t see him texting though he would receive calls or text messages sometimes. He’s been there a week and I don’t know if he’s ever going to come home. Right now I feel like he’s weighing me against the girl. She’s turning 18 in a few months so by then they would be free. But he knows that I can sue him because I threatened him with it before.

    Right now it still hurts like hell but I have to continue living for my sons. I am ashamed to ask him for anything but my salary just cannot cover all our bills. What are my chances of winning him back?

    1. Hi Jen,

      Man, the more I read stories similar to this, the more I am convinced that it is not good for ANY other female to be around your man longer than you in your house. I have heard it all. Cousins living with family cheating with the husband, friends, and of course your situation, the nanny.

      My ex-husband said the same thing, he needed time to think and it killed me, because in my mind, what was there to think about? You are willing to give up everything for her? You really need to think about what is at stake? I was devastated.
      But at the end of the day, he caught feelings for her, and there was nothing I could do about it. In your situation, your last line about the chances that you can win him back? Unfortunately he is telling you he has to think about it. So the only thing you can control is this: How long you give him to think, and what the game plan will be if he decides to return (which is important). Do you want him back if he can’t stop seeing the girl? What if he comes back, how will both of you operate and repair the marriage? Right now the ball is in his court as he is saying he needs time. I am not you, but if I were, I would put a time stamp on it. If you take him back, do so and make sure he leads the recovery, counseling books, ect. this is important as he needs to convey to you that he is serious. And even if he comes back, in the back of your mind, you have to think about your game plan if it doesn’t work out. I couldn’t afford my house alone with my ex-husband, so we lost it, but staying there in misery knowing/not knowing at any moment if he was cheating was too much for me. I know it’s tough when kids are involved, as I have two of my own.

      Last but not least, if you do end up trying to save the marriage, really look into your job/work schedules. It’s tough to keep the flame alive when you have kids and two jobs, and you have the added dynamic of schedules that only allow interaction on the weekend – that is a tough husband/wife schedule. Not blaming anyone, just saying try to make it easier on both of you. I wish you well in your journey, hugs to you.

  217. My husband had an affair with a woman 20 years older than me. The other woman is not prettier. She’s not smarter. She doesn’t have as much money either. She’s a nobody , really. She and my husband ate breakfast with their mutual friends every day. She got his phone number somehow and began to call him . . . every day. She called every day for over a year and a half. She asked him to help her with a water supply problem at her house. There was the opportunity! . . He told me about the affair 2 days after learning he had terminal cancer, ON OUR ANNIVERSARY. Great timing! I stayed because I thought it was the decision I could live with. Maybe it’s a good reason, maybe not. It’s hard either way.

    1. Carmencamera,

      That is really horrible timing. I have interacted with a couple of women who found out during or right before their husband’s illness about their infidelity. With my previous interactions, all of them made the decision to stay with their husband during the difficult time, which I could only imagine how painful that process would be to go through. I wonder if his illness caused him to have a moment where he felt compelled to tell you. And I wonder if the other women is still around or has he cut her off. In any event, take care and I wish you well.

  218. I also have been devastated by a cheating husband @ the 22 year mark, we have now been together for 25 years. I have waffled on & off about whether to stay or go…..not only because I am not ever again going to feel sure of this not happening again (with anyone for that matter) but also because as many have stated, you will never know the real/full story. In my case, the OW is one of my husband’s accts at his job where he has worked for 20 years. For the first 2 years post affair, he had to see her twice a week, about 45 minutes each time. Now this past year+, it has been rarely he sees/speaks with her due to being able to change his schedule to mostly miss her. This combined with the not getting the full story, knowing there was MORE, has been sheer torture and has stymied my recovery despite his true remorse and trying to prove I am the one for him. We both felt she would move on from the job she has, but of course, that would be too easy & she is still there.
    What I wanted to mention to the women who were the “other women” who posted on the page were several things. First, how would YOU like to be in a “contest” for your most precious relationship, and not even know there was a competitor? How would you like it if for instance your job you had for 18 years was going along nicely when your boss announces that a new coworker hired several months ago was competing for your job, and they won? You are now fired or jobless. Would you think this was fair? Would you think that you might be appreciated for your 20 years there? Maybe not perfect-but certainly, couldn’t they at least let you know that your job was on the line & that you were now c0mpeting for it? A job is not as important as a marriage by any stretch, but it shows the unfairness of such a competition. The affair partner knows not only to put her best performance on because IF she knows he is involved, she knows she is in a competition. In addition, most men will tell the affair partner what he feels is “missing” sexually, emotionally or otherwise, giving them a distinct advantage. (I bet they are leading their wife to believe everything is fine) Also, many of these unrepentant people have never had any long term relationship to lose, and therefore cannot begin to relate to the pain they are causing. It is true that men are TOTALLY responsible for their cheating choices, but many single women target them as easy prey because they are more likely to be suffering a little boredom, or desire a little harmless attention from other women. Today, women are coming on to men and coming on strong. All they need to do is proposition a man or be sexually suggestive and men are true suckers for feeling sexually “wanted.” Then they start considering “what if?” Then the fantasies, and they are on their way. But could these affair partners keep these relationships in a constant state of excitement themselves without the sneakiness, forbidden-ness, newness, etc? Is this not why most affairs end? They die a natural death? Despite all the crazy passion, sexting, etc, etc, it really has not much holding it together? Finally, a relationship usually needs to go “somewhere” eventually. The woman my man had the affair with told him after flirting for several weeks that she would “do” him if he took her out for a couple of drinks. To me that sounds disgusting, but to a lot of men the intrigue & attention is too much for their mind not to take off with them. They rationalize “just once” & they are off & running.
    Also, most men will tell you, they pick wo0men who are “easy,” and who they believe would be happy with a no strings arrangement (ALTHOUGH MOST WOMEN AREN’T) This is why they are usually a downgrade from their primary partner. Men are pickier with who they are going to trust with EVERYTHING (sorry OW’s) Also, some women pick married men because they get ALL the attention, unless the man has more than one mistress. They don’t have to wonder where he is when he is not with them, they know he is home with his boring wife he has most likely run down to her. She also is less likely to catch an STD (although likely to GIVE one) These are some of the reasons women like married men. And there are more and more that actually like the conquest, the challenge of ruining a “perfect” record a long term relationship has/had.
    My therapist tells me (and I agree) a cheating betrayal in a long term relationship where you deeply trusted someone is flat out the most painful thing a person can go through. (save losing a child and feeling responsible for it) It takes down your security, your identity (even if you have a job, ect) your hopes for the future, and your self-image. How much more can you take a person down? By the way, men are equally if not more devastated by cheating than women, and less likely to try to repair the relationship. Cheating is a poor start for any relationship.

  219. This is exactly what happened and now i need to know why he leaves the power in my hands to choose…the extra little tidbit of info is tjat this OW was the OW in his last marraige and she helped that one end but he eventially broke it off with her and low n behold she is the OW again I want to know why he is leaving it in my court…so he can help lie to himself in believing he did all he could to redeem himself?

  220. To the wives who have been hurt…kudos to all of you for staying classy despite what you’ve been through. My mother divorced my father when I was two years old (I’m now 30) because of his constant infidelity. The OW was a slut who didn’t care that he was a married man with a daughter. She got pregnant around the time my mother gave birth to me. So now I have 3 half-siblings. But his marriage to the OW didn’t last.

    I admire the strength you ladies have shown, because it is very difficult to deal with that kind of disrespect in a relationship. Lately I’ve been wondering if my husband of nearly 5 years has been cheating on me. I don’t actually have proof, but my intuition tells me that something isn’t right. I haven’t accused him of anything but I did ask him a few times and he would be very defensive. All I have to say is that if he IS cheating, he’d better hope that I don’t find out about it. And if there is another woman, she’d better hope that I don’t confront her because I will.

    And as to the “other women”…maybe you should consider the feelings of the wives and stop being selfish. I agree that the cheating husband is 100% at fault, but as his “partner in crime” you should also share some of the blame. Show some class and keep your legs closed to married men. There are plenty of single men out there for you to have “fun” with. I realize that some married men are dishonest and they will pretend to be single, but a lot of you “Other Women” are not naive, innocent victims. Many of you are fully aware that the man is married but you don’t care. It is not OK to screw around with somebody else’s husband. It is selfish and disrespectful. And you shouldn’t have to know the wife personally, to care about her feelings. She is a person just like you and she doesn’t deserve that. Would you want some other woman to screw YOUR husband, if she knew that he was a married man? Probably not…so don’t do it to somebody else.

  221. @Kimberlee…it sounds like you should just let him go. Let me see if I understand…this woman is the same woman he cheated on his previous wife with, before he met you? They obviously deserve one another.

    IMO, it doesn’t really matter why he is now leaving the ball in your court. You know what needs to be done. You deserve better.

  222. What about the ladies who have actually been out with their husbands and had potential OW throw themselves at him? This has happened to me a few times.

  223. On the same note…my husband has some friends who moved to North Carolina last year. They have been married for a long time and they have a little boy together. We learned that they are now separated because the guy has been cheating on his wife with an 18-year-old girl. These people are in their mid 30’s. I was shocked because they seemed to be deeply in love and very happy. But I guess things aren’t always as they seem.

    Men who cheat disgust me…I have no respect for them, unless they are willing to change their ways. And the same applies to women who knowingly engage in affairs with married men.

    I don’t believe that a wife should have to suffer in silence while her husband cheats. Nor should she allow some b*tch to step in and ruin her marriage. Sometimes you have to fight for what is rightfully yours, if it’s worth fighting for. I am a very proud woman and I know that if my husband cheated on me, I would not accept it. Any other female who thinks she can take my place and take my man would have quite a difficult time…you can be sure of that.

  224. @ InSight…I agree with every word you said. I won’t deny that my marriage is now missing the “spark” it once had. But I’ve always been faithful to my husband and I expect the same in return.

    What happens is that some men stop seeing their wives as beautiful, interesting and exciting. They start looking around for something new. And in some cases the wife does lose her looks or becomes unhappy in the marriage…but that still doesn’t justify cheating on her.

    I also agree that some women are truly low-class if they knowingly hit on married men. One woman actually did it to my husband in front of me and I put her in her place. It’s about establishing the upper hand. You have to show them that you are the WIFE and you mean business. You will not stand for being disrespected.

  225. IAmNotInLoveWithYou

    The OW in my case was his whore secretary. I was surprised not to find more people comment that their husband’s cheated with someone they worked with. How cliché and lazy of him. The OW divorced her husband of 13 years last year to be with my husband. My husband never looked back and finally after 10 months of him living with me during the week and her on the weekends, he finally left in March 2013. What a relief and I now feel like my recovery has just begun. It gets better as time passes and I’ve started blogging about it (see my first name), which really seems to help me vent, helps me to tell my story, and work on recovery. My divorce is still pending and he has to pay towards the household expenses until our divorce is final. What’s even more unbelievable is he is an elected government official with over 100 people (mostly women) working for him and is now living full-time with his mistress secretary, who has no education and didn’t even finish high school. I guess he feels like he can take care of her and control her every move.
    Thank you for your blog and I will continue to reap the benefits of all the amazing people out there that didn’t deserve to have this happen to them. It’s amazing how small this world is since the internet brings us together.

    I hope one day I can actually thank the OW for taking such a liar, controlling bastard off my hands. But, not yet ….

    1. IamNotInLoveWithYou and M,

      IamNotInLoveWithYou, welcome to the road of recovery. M made a comment that said “Sometimes you have to fight for what is rightfully yours, if it’s worth fighting for.” The key phrase is ‘if it’s worth fighting for’, and that decision is often hard, but once you make it, and stand strong in the decision, it is like a ton on bricks lifted off of your shoulders. I remember being where you are now, fresh out of the decision, living life, trying to get through, but everyday gets better, it really does. It’s interesting that you say one day you want to thank the OW. After I left my ex-husband, life is wonderful, better than I could of ever imagined. I think the cheating forced me to really take a look at my life from the bottom up, and as I came out of the darkness, I build a foundation of a life that I wanted, how I wanted it, and it feels good. Yes, I am overwhelmed at times, yes, I stress too much over my kids and job, but overall, I do not regret leaving my husband, so I say all this to say, I wish you well, I know good things are in store for you.

      M – I agree with your statements and everything that you have said, thank you for supporting others in pain. You seem like a very confident woman that doesn’t take any mess! I think what happened to me happens to alot of women, somewhere along the line, we attach our self worth to our husband. So when he cheats, many women (myself included), lose not only foundation of the marriage, you also lose a big part of your self worth. I had to work my way out of that mentality and now I am strong enough that I will never let another person be responsible for my own self-worth – not giving that away again. Take care!

  226. Starting the road to recovery

    Wow, a lot of posts to read here! Where do I begin…. Have been married for 22 years with 2 children, 18 year old daughter & 15 year old son. We have not been happy for most of our marriage, but the children kept us together, well for me at least is what kept me in the marriage. When things started going south I would ask for counseling, but he refused. Like someone else mentioned he worked crazy hours, and then started his own business so those hours were crazy, was I suspicious – yes, did I think he would actually be a cheater – no, not for the 1st part of our marriage. But I always suspected because he made no effort to work on the marriage, and I never came across any hard evidence, yes I looked. As I said I remained for the children, I am a stay at home mom. Why didn’t I leave earlier? As my friend kept trying to make me do….I came from a broken marriage and I didn’t want that for them. Little did I know staying was just as damaging for them. what I have learned from them this past week is, and that they have never told me before:
    he was a father to them just like he was a spouse to me, he was there when it was convenient for him, and he was never vested in them mentally or emotionally other then his. he was never around anyways so no great loss because even when he was around he wasn’t. And how blatantly selfish he is (so not my imagination after all) did I see him doing this to the children – no, me yes them no. He loved his children and took pride in them, he was not abusive to them. I just didn’t see the lack of effort of emotionally not being vested in them, I was use to it for me. And they say he demanded respect of them because he was the provider but there is more to being a father then being a provider. and they have suspected him of cheating for a very long time too. My daughter says since she was 11, and my son says he has suspected for a long time but doesn’t remember when it started, but he had noticed the past year that things really changed with his father and knew it was only a matter of time and figured he would leave once his sister left for college. And then his suspicions were confirmed when his father had him help him move a “friend/coworker”. Which leads me to me posting…..the degree of betrayal I can not even begin to wrap my brain around….his coworker, which at the time their thing started she was his supervisor trying to get out of a mentally abusive marriage. She knew we were married with children, she had met us all. How does someone knowingly participate in helping to betray a family for a year as they plan a future once he left us, which happened a few months sooner since I found out. Contact my daughter as a her fathers “ex-supervisor” and ask her to participate in a volunteer program to whom she would mentor? Allow my husband to bring his son to help her move? She has 2 children herself, is there no moral boundaries?? AND even after I text her for her to stay the f@@k away from my family (along with a few other things) she emails my daughter about her starting the volunteer program?? I can not begin to comprehend this, yes my husband is just to blame of this, I now know how well he is at hiding, lying and manipulating and now no moral compass, he whole heatedly believes what he is telling you as he lies through his teeth. So not only is the betrayal to me but to my children too. Not once did it ever occur to them that once their father would leave us for her of the impact that these previous actions would have an effect on them!?! He will say I turned them away from him but it has been his actions that have done so for many years. When I found out and confronted him he lied said it was harmless attention, I said bullshit! He kept deny it, I kept asking what are your plans because your lying. He did ask half heartedly to go somewhere else to talk since the kids are home, I said no they are busy doing their thing. He continued to lie…..the next mourning I discover it had been going on for a year, called him on it by txt and he said it doesn’t matter since he has been unhappy for much longer and he will move out after our daughter leaves for college, yep very manly all over text. At this point they deserve one another and good riddance! I just can not get over the complete lack of boundaries with my children, that hurts me the most! He has no idea of how this has effected them nor cares.

    I wear my emotions on my sleeve, so my daughter knew something was up and kept insisting I tell her, I just said her father has left us and she knew instantly why and who and said screw that volunteer thing, walked into her room crying to find the email from (as I call her, the home wrecking slut) and politely told her “she appreciates the opportunity but she needs to decline as she would be uncomfortable nor has any desire to work with her or be around her, and we both know why! Have a good life!” So my lovely husband (sarcasm) now knows the children know, do you think he is concerned on how they are taking it? No, he asks why did I tell them so soon? You see, this is my daughters graduating week, he wanted to get through it as if everything is just hunky-dory in his eyes. I told him they figured it all out, and have been suspicious for sometime, so you are not as great at hiding it as you thought. AND, our son feels its a slap in the face that you would take him to help you move your girlfriend! Did he respond? No, just walked away….such a flippen coward…..right now I feel he and his home wrecking sluts are the scums of the earth and deserve one another, and Karma is a bitch – I look forward to that one rolling in! As far as the children are concerned he is just a sperm donor to them, and needs to continue to provide since its the only thing he did anyway.

    1. Hi Starting the road to recovery,

      Despite everything I hope your daughter’s graduation went well. The level of disappointment is so apparent. You are like me in a way (before I found out my husband cheated). I made the mistake of thinking that most people are like me, most people would think before they did things that would impact an entire family or a person’s life for that matter. But through this experience I learned a lesson that actually is serving me well. And that is this – I have a heart, I try to make decisions that will not impact others negatively, BUT I can never assume that is how everyone else thinks – that is just me. Therefore, since I do know everyone’s heart, it is in my best interest to make decisions that I personally think are good for me, and trust that those decisions will end up being good for others as well.

      I know it’s hard to think that another woman would do this, but knowing what I know now, it’s actually super easy. I have talked to and interacted with the OW, they will say things to themselves like they are ‘helping’ the marriage by helping to satisfy the husband, they will say the affair is not their issue because they are not the ones married. The point is, people tell themselves all type of stories to justify behavior.

      Speaking of which, I am so glad that you stated the comment about deciding to stay for the kids, and realizing now that was not as effective as you thought. I wish every women that has decided to ‘stay’ for the kids could read this, because I agree. I stayed at first and I could not contain my anger, and I thought to myself ‘Ok, I am staying to keep the family together, but all they are seeing is mommy sad and miserable, mommy and daddy fighting or not talking, is this the type of example I want my kids to see?’. Kids are so much smarter than we think (like your son feeling something wasn’t right with the ‘move’ situation). And the BEST thing you can show a kid is how to recover from life’s up’s and down’s and still be happy.

      That is the great thing about your story – you absolutely have an opportunity to show 2 teens a life lessons that will serve them well the rest of their lives. During this time, they will watch you. It’s ok to be sad and upset. But eventually, I want you to pick yourself up, and get it together. Go see a divorce lawyer and empower yourself with the rights you have as a wife. Take steps to do things for YOU. All that attention you directed towards the marriage, invest it back in yourself and your kids. When you interact with your kids, tell them, mommy has been sad and upset by this situation, but mommy also knows that other people’s actions (including Daddy’s) are not a reflection of mommy. Daddy has some issues going on, and he has to decide if he wants to address them, but mommy is not going to sit around and be upset for long. Mommy is a survivor and mommy is going be just fine, mommy is still going to laugh and enjoy life, and mommy knows better things are in store for her. And after you say it, believe it, believe it, believe it.

      Years from now when your kids will be faced with obstacles in their own life, they are subconsciously going to look back at how you handled this and know they can get through anything. I am cheering for you – Jewels!

      **Notice how little attention I gave your husband and the OW in my response…..take note my friend (smile).

  227. My husband of 20 years cheated with a woman 8 years my junior, prettier, slimmer and smarter (she has a PhD!). The only fault I could find with her was that she initiated the relationship (she told him she was unhappily married) and seduced my husband. My husband had told her he was happily married but she continued to sms and smother him with attention. I could not compete with her cos I was living 8 hours’ flite away and my husband and I get to spend only about 3 months in a year together. They got to see each other daily as they were colleagues. I was almost oblivious to what was happening (there’s only so much you can see through skype or hear through the phone). They were bold – carrying on an affair and no one in the office suspected. She told him of other men before him who had wanted to marry her even though she was married. My husband was so smitten that he failed to see the red flags! When my husband got caught, she promptly moved on to another man, even taking the new paramour to her office. My counselor told me that my husband has been played by a sociopath. I chose to forgive my husband because we were in a long distance marriage (which was emotionally tough on both of us) when it happened. And he has shown great remorse.
    However, I sometimes find difficulty moving on because I know he had truly fallen in love with her, cared for her and had wanted to marry her. And apart for her sociopathic tendencies, she really has the whole package – looks, brains, confidence and charms. Is my husband settling for second best?

    1. Rachel,

      OMG – stop putting the OW on top! Your counselor said she is a sociopath, you are better than a sociopath. She knowingly sleeps with men that are married, uses them, dumps them and then moves on to the next guy at the office. Who does that? You are better than that. Yes she might have some looks and a PHD, but she seems really dysfunctional. And it appears that by you putting her first (like you are second best), that means you have some self-esteem issues as well, because you should not feel you come in second to a sociopath that has affairs with married men at the office. You are so much more better than that. And it’s time that you start acting like it, because if you act second best, that is how the world and your husband is going to see you. You have to change your mindset to say you are a top notch women who deserves the best. Your husband is very very very lucky that you are still with him, many would of kicked him to the curb. You choose to stay with him, through the craziness. So it’s time for you to start acting like you are first place, not second!!

  228. Well now let me tell you about the OW. Not only is she not attractive she is not stable in her life. He said it was not her looks he liked talking to her. I hate him sometimes. And she what type of woman waits for 10 years? An idiot? Well thanks

  229. I feel men cheat on their wives with someone who is less together than the wife is because the OW puts that man on a pedistal, praises him, adores him, etc., and the reason it is with a younger women is to boost their “ego”, god forbid we dont adorn them constantly, god its sick its not right, its not cool when you live in a city like Las Vegas and you find out your husband who is almost 50 (mind you im only 35, been with him since I was 19) is cheating on you and treating you like your worthless or not as good as this 23 old prostitute (which by the way has been prostituting since the age of 13) all I can think is AIDS, STD’s etc., or that before this was with a 25 year old who solicited her services on craigslist and 7 months pregnant with another mans baby! But wait the most recent and for some reason im just having a hard time to let this go cause im tired of the bs, is a 20 year old that not only is prostitute but also is addicted to heroin! I keep hearing about from others and occasionaly when we are having our yelling matches out his own mouth that he is messing around with all these other women, that are just as bad, if not worse.
    I cried for days last year when he cheated on me with the 25 year old pregnant girl on our 16th anniversary, you want to know the worst thing about it, I was doing everything I could to show him I loved him, I even went out of my comfort zone sexually to please him, praise him, serve him, everything and he cheated on me on our 16 year old anniversary. I dont know why I am still here, I have no desire to be with another person because I do not want to go through this ever again.

    1. Hi Nikarie,

      Thanks for sharing. Great assessment. As you know from the post, I agree that sometimes men know that if the women is not as together, they will look at getting with the husband as something very special, and they will put up with being on the side, because having a man of that nature is amazing for them. Good for the cheater because she won’t say anything, she is happy to be in companion. The older guy cheating with a younger woman is classic. As men age, they crave feeding their own ego with thoughts that they ‘still go it’. A younger women will help feed the ego. Several younger women will feed it even more.

      As some point you are going to want to dig deeper to understand the current state of your marriage. You are only 35, so you have many years ahead of you and you want to make sure those years are good ones. The worst part about infidelity is that it often kills hope. Don’t let him do that to you because you do not deserve it. Hugs to you.

  230. I just found this site a few days ago, before that I was living this nightmare all alone. Because of the shame. In the last 8 months I have found out my husband of 17 years cheated on me 3 times with women from online hook up sites, the first time was in our first year of marriage when we had an infant son. While I was pregnant and after he was born for almost a year I was not interested in sex and most of that time not capable of it anyway because of complications with the pregnancy. He always said, it’s ok, no big deal, things like that and I believed him at the time. Also he has always looked at porn, quite a bit, in the beginning it really bothered me but over the years he hid it better and when I did catch him he would say things like, all men do this, it’s normal, your being crazy. Eventually I believed that too and thought I was just being crazy and a prude. Our sex life through out our marriage was nt great, I always instigated and even though he said he enjoyed it I always felt like something was missing. As it turns out the missing piece was his honesty, over the years I tried very hard too talk to him and find out what was missing he always said nothing that everything was great. Anyway, 8 months ago it all came to a head. I finally got him to tell me what I thought was the truth through many days of hard core fighting. He told me about these 3 online whores, but not the timeline I talked about above, he told me some bizarre made up version of events. As I asked questions and obsessed over every little detail I realized he was lying, about 4 months into this unbelievable torture he tells me he made it all up, that there were no other women and he had never physically cheated, only online chatting. I was so confused and traumatized I did not know what to think. he said the reason he did this was because he was afraid I would leave him if I did not have something to believe, something t forgive him for. I had told him I do not believe you. I know something happened and I will never believe you and I can’t stay with you without knowing the truth of my life. So he said that’s why he told me those lies. So for the last 4 or 5 months I still knew something was wrong with all of this, I felt it and it was driving me nuts. Last week I told him I wanted a lie detector test, so he finally told me the truth. There was 3 whores, just different whores and different timelines. He is trying, I think, how am I suppose to know he has lied so many times. I feel shame because I am still here, I feel shame because he chose obviously twisted women who are willing to give a strange man their address and their bodies after a couple hours of dirty chat on a website. That’s right, there are tons of women on these sites willing to sleep with anyone, in their own homes anytime, and I mean thousands of them. I went and looked on these sites, I wanted to find the whore he slept with, crazy I know, not doing that anymore. They were disgusting, I was beyond shocked. It is like this constant looming threat hanging over my head every second. How can women do this?! My rage is mostly directed at my husband, don’t get me wrong, more than rage, pure disgust, but these women are nothing more than predators. I chose the way I live, I chose a healthy lifestyle where I was not at risk and neither were my children, he took that choice from me. I was at risk though out my whole marriage and never knew it, he swears he wore condoms but again, he lies so how do I know. And even if he did even children know they are not full proof. How do we stay safe in a world with no decency, both our spoiled, entitled husbands and the women out there with no self respect?

  231. Mens behavior is so flipping disgusting, I dont know if anyone has read the post above, its from the other women, granted we all are allowed our own opinions, I just wonder if this OW has heard the wifes side, what the wife has sacrificed in the marriage! Kinda crazy I love how people say women nag, if you ask me my husband is the biggest nag I have ever came across. And one more thing I want to know, how would our husbands feel if the roles were reversed? They would not like it would they? How would they feel if we blamed it on them? I think they purposely find something wrong with us to justify their cheating, its a flipping copout, its bs. God forbid they feel guilty, or bad about anything they do, its insane, and I have had it! Just yesterday I found a used condom wrapper in my husbands shorts while I was doing laundry, because we go to the laundry mat, he made like I was lying, like I planted the damn thing! Why on gods green earth would I make that up? I am tired of the lies, deceipt, deception, and not being there, not to mention how I am being treated its awful its imberrising, I feel so ashamed, and what he tells people about me is so wrong, I cant believe it. I am so glad im past the point of crying, now I feel no pitty, I want him to suffer and hurt and go thru all he has put me thru.
    Not only have I endured 17 years of physical and mental abuse, now I have to deal with this? At least when he was hitting me he cared, I know that may sound crazy but when he use to hit me he felt bad, now he hits me and laughs at me like im a joke.
    Anyhow I know it is over, I have no desire to fix this relationship, I will never go back to him, its time I moved on. I cant believe I ever lowered myself to his level, I cant believe I ever loved someone so cruel and mean. I hate him, I truly hate him, he has destroyed our family, he has wasted 17 years of my life, he has ruined countless friendships, jobs, etc. Im tired, tired of defending myself so he can feel better about himself. Im tired of everything, im tired of not laughing, and I feel like I have lost who I really am, I dont like who I have become, im tired of feeling jealous, insecure, and like I am not worth anything. Im tired of it, but im scared, I think the mental abuse has really killed my spirit, I just dont believe in myself anymore. Especially after this cheating crap, I feel like I am replaceable! Its not supposed to be like that, we were supposed to grow old together now its gone from so close like 2 pees in pod to straight enemies on opposing lines ready to kill the other one for a pair of socks. I know that sounds crazy but I just was told that he wishes I would die cuz he does not have very many socks! Now why would I a womens size 8 want to steal his his men size 12 socks? People lack common sense, and once again I think it is just another stupid thing to make himself hate me. I truly feel like he is finding anything and everything to pick on me, he will ask me question now I know better than to answer, why cuz no matter how I answer it it will be wrong, and before u know it he is yelling at me. A couple weeks ago he needed to go outside of town to meet this elderly man to sale him a scooter, well I google mapped it, we could not find it, I was following the directions and all of a sudden tne road ended, we got back on the freeway, went the wrong direction, when I told him that we were not headed in the right direction he slammed on the breaks, I almost hit the windshield with my head and then he started screaming at me, putting me down, and calling me every rotten name thats known to man.
    But im still here like a idiot, I kicked him out last night, he was just acting like he was packing, and now he is stalling, im not going to kiss his butt, feed his ego, play his stupid mean games I am writing to this blog to distract myself, and also to remind myself that I dont need this man to be happy, that I need to get rid of this man if I ever want to find myself. (If the words are spelled wrong its cuz im on the tablet, im suremu all know what I mean).

    1. Meagan/Niki

      Hi Meagan,

      Thanks for sharing your story. At this point, your husband has been so back and forth I can see why you feel like you can not believe anything. I have heard this story several times of cheaters saying all of these things admitting who they slept with and then saying ‘never mind’, I just said that because you kept asking so I made it up. Typically, a husband doesn’t make up such detailed story. How mentally challenging for you is that to be going back and forth all of the time.
      Yes you are right, there are many women who are willing to do anything for money or attention, that is a fact. But at the same time, there are men that don’t buy into it. I think at this point you are going to have to dig deep and make some decisions to protect your own sanity and health. It’s not easy, but I will tell you being involved with someone where you don’t know if they are lying are telling the truth everyday is exhausting and not good health wise. Hugs to you.


      Hugs to you as well. Yes, our mental justification system is amazing. Cheaters will commonly find fault in their wife to mentally justify their own guilt for cheating. So if you think that is happening in your own home, you are not alone, happens all the time. I know you mentioned your husband has been abusive as well, which is another level. I was in a mentally and physically abusive relationship in my past and it was the worse. Luckily I got out, but twice I thought I was going to die. My self esteem was so low, it’s hard to feel good about yourself. You have to look deep within and figure out first how to make yourself happy, regardless of what your husband is doing. This is extremely important because once you know how to make yourself happy, you will start to really really notice what doesn’t make you happy. Right now you are so numb you can feel too much either way. The only other thing I will tell you is a statistic that men who are abusive are the most violent when they find out the women they are with is leaving. Only you will know if you ever would get to that point of leaving, but if you do, be strategic about it. Don’t throw it in his face. Protect yourself and your family and get some help in the process. I wish more peace for you.

  232. Bottom line is that men WILL cheat. They are wired that way. Culture and social norms tell us from a young age showing us pictures of what is the norm. What should be the norm that monogamy is encouraged, men should marry women, be faithful and so on.

    I think ultimately that is the problem. Other cultures who do not teach monogamy, who do not ingrain in children’s heads how life SHOULD be have no problems with cheating.

    I have been cheated on by my husband multiple times. Yes Ive left the bastard but thinking about it clearly, it seems we as grownup women have certain expectations because from a young age, we have an idea of how things SHOULD be.

    That is what makes it so difficult to accept because in our eyes it is wrong. But in other cultures, no one makes a fuss. Ive seen this firsthand

    All my husband’s OW were actually very similar to me. Some were older, some younger. Some promiscuous, some conservative. But we could have been girlfriends in another lifetime. We had so many things in common and had the same likes more or less. True not one was horrid to me, everyone was in a way embarassed to have been caught and some were apologetic and KNEW that what they were doing was wrong.

    This tells me that my jerk husband is the one with a problem. He too was brought up thinking how life SHOULD be but in his case he just happens to be weak and has no sense of determination to be other than his instincts. This shows me too that he has a TYPE.

    He likes a certain kind of woman.He doesnt look at how pretty or how ugly. A lot were ugly fat old, Some were young and lithe. So there is really no common ground except how they were as people

    The sad thing in the end is that ALL these women wanted how things SHOULD be. They all wanted a husband, love, faithfulness, marraige, kids, feeling special. Funny isnt it? Everyone wants what they think SHOULD. How to get at it was fair game.

    Not one of these OW got it on with my husband for fun. Everyone was looking for a happy ending, the home, the white picket fence etc. And most hilariously ironic of all. Everyone was scared shitless with the thought of him cheating on them.

    Love is a choice, commitment is a choice as well

    The OW is there because she chose to be. Some just dont put the same weight on values and principle. There is no guilt. The same way that some women are more daredevil compared to others. It just boils down to how they are in their heads and hearts.

    A lot think that mistakes are human and that all will be forgiven once you overcome said trials and falls. Some think and are scared of making mistakes. The OW just happens to have less rigidity within herself, that is why its no big deal to be the OW.

    Once they are in the shoes of the wife, most often than not, that is when things start to matter because naturally there will be more stuff to worry about. The house, kids, rent, business.

    I saw that firsthand with my husbands OW who he ended up with. He continued to cheat, he continued to be himself. The OW once called me a few years ago asking for advice from me of all people.

    I realized pain is only relevant if it threatens a part of your life and lifestyle that you deem important. Long ago it wasnt important to her that I was in pain, because she doesnt know my life. Now she is in pain because so much is at stake

    And now I couldnt care less because my husband isnt important to me anymore. What happens to him doesnt affect my lifestyle nor my children’s lives. We have all settled down already quite comfortably.

    So I guess this is how the OW must have felt during the time she was having an affair with my husband.

    I dont think I can ever be the OW now that im divorced.

    Married men do sometimes want to date me but i am just repulsed by the whole idea. True I too am looking for love, that which was denied to me because of my husbands excessive cheating. This is a good example of how it is a choice in the firstplace. Many times I catch myself thinking and reflecting on these.

    A girlfriend of mine on the other hand has no qualms about dating narried men especially after being cheated on and feeling powerless.For once she wants to be the powerful one, the one on the top by trying out being the OW.

    I cant say I am right, she is wrong. It would be great to not be on the losing end all the time, but at what cost?

    That is what I often think about. Freedom is relative happiness. Once I hook up with a married man, again I will be in relatively the same boat as before when I was still a wife. In a wat beholden to someone, dependent on someone’s assessment of me.

    I think with all these I am resigned and happy about being single, free. Men if there will be someone good someday will just be a plus much like the latest IT purse. LOL

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